NAS (ie., SnapServer) supported?

[nmcfw]

Does anyone have any experience with NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices and PCP9?
We have a small network of 4 WinXP PCs connected to a SnapServer. The PCs are not normally left running when staff members are out of their offices, but the SnapServer is always on with a small battery backup.

Can we install PCP9 on the 4 local PCs, map a network drive letter to point to a secure folder on the SnapServer, and copy the database files from one local PC to the SnapServer, and from then on have everyone share the common DB on the server, or must the PCP9 program also be installed on a "server"? (In which case the SnapServer with non-Windows OS would not be able to load the executable and therefore apparently not work).
IF this is possible, which files need to be copied to the NAS?

[NeilZ]

Does anyone have any experience with NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices and PCP9?
We have a small network of 4 WinXP PCs connected to a SnapServer. The PCs are not normally left running when staff members are out of their offices, but the SnapServer is always on with a small battery backup.

Can we install PCP9 on the 4 local PCs, map a network drive letter to point to a secure folder on the SnapServer, and copy the database files from one local PC to the SnapServer, and from then on have everyone share the common DB on the server, or must the PCP9 program also be installed on a "server"? (In which case the SnapServer with non-Windows OS would not be able to load the executable and therefore apparently not work).
IF this is possible, which files need to be copied to the NAS?

No, Powerchurch expects to find its Data files in the data directory just off the program directory. PC+ just needs to have one computer defined as a 'server', it can be any of the WinXP computers. The Powerchurch directory on that machine must be shared, and the NETSETUP9 program executed on the other three machines.

You can, however, run the manual backup of the PC+ database to the NAS hard drive.

For more info on setting up PC+ on the network, see the Version 9 manual, page 3 & 4, as well as this online articles on setting up the shared drives:

http://www.powerchurch.com/support/answ ... icle_id=33
http://www.powerchurch.com/support/answ ... icle_id=41

[nmcfw]

Thanks Neil. I was afraid of that. We don't want to leave the Pastor or Treasurer PCs running all the time due to security issues and also frequent power outages which force reboot.
When our pastor ordered the program, he was told it could access data on a network server, but apparently what they really meant is a peer machine configured for network sharing. So unless someone can come up with a workaround, it looks like we will be left with either buying a new PC to host PC+ or else return the program for refund.

[NeilZ]

Thanks Neil. I was afraid of that. We don't want to leave the Pastor or Treasurer PCs running all the time due to security issues and also frequent power outages which force reboot.
When our pastor ordered the program, he was told it could access data on a network server, but apparently what they really meant is a peer machine configured for network sharing. So unless someone can come up with a workaround, it looks like we will be left with either buying a new PC to host PC+ or else return the program for refund.

Hi,

what security issues are you worried about ?? Don't those two PC's have passwords that will secure them from access?

No one needs to be logged on to the machines for the Powerchurch drive to be accessable. As far as power outages, I would spend the money for two UPSs even if I didn't need to keep the machines running, as a power outage can affect the systems no matter what.

In addtiion, you really don't need to have PC+ running on a Windows XP machine for a server at all, you can use Win98/ME or NT without a problem.

I see where the terminology may have been at fault. A network server, means just that, a computer that is a server. Network attached storage, is something completely different.

As afar as looking for another program, you'll find that you won't find another program with as much 'bang for the buck'. Others do networking, but you have to buy a copy of the program for each machine, or buy an addtiional program that will link in to network the system.

You'll find out that PC+ can do alot more, for less. Here's a few questions:

1. How many machines will be networked?
2. What time are they most likely being used ?
3. What OSs are you using?

[Jeff]

If you can map a drive to the snap server, then I would go ahead and try to run PC+ off of it. There are no components of PC+ that run on the server. You will still locate the executable files on the server, but they will not be run on the server. The workstations should still be able to access the exes just like they were on a peer to peer network. I believe from other research I have done about snap servers that can handle file and record locking.

Users for years have run PC+ from non-windows server OSs such as Netware or Linux without problems. We ourselves ran a netware network until 2001-2002. And we have tested on a Linux samba server just to see if we could do it. You need to differentiate between where programs are stored vs where they are run. Basically in this instance the server is just operating as a shared hard drive nothing more.

The only thing you will not be able to do without a windows server is schedule the pcindex9.exe program to automatically run on the server. Doing the reindex on the server is a little more efficient because the data files don't have to move through the network wire. This could still be scheduled to run on a workstation, but since they are not left on, that could be a problem.

[Jeff]

I just checked the knowledge base for snap server and it does appear that they do support record locking, so you should be able to use it as a server for PC+.

The SnapOS does support byte-range locking for Microsoft, Apple's Macintosh, and NFS. Byte-range locking is used by applications for users that are accessing only a portion of a file. The application will lock a range of the file which allows the remaining portion of the file to be modified by another user.

I found this by searching for "file locking" in their knowledge base.

[NeilZ]

If you can map a drive to the snap server, then I would go ahead and try to run PC+ off of it. There are no components of PC+ that run on the server. You will still locate the executable files on the server, but they will not be run on the server. The workstations should still be able to access the exes just like they were on a peer to peer network. I believe from other research I have done about snap servers that can handle file and record locking.

Users for years have run PC+ from non-windows server OSs such as Netware or Linux without problems. We ourselves ran a netware network until 2001-2002. And we have tested on a Linux samba server just to see if we could do it. You need to differentiate between where programs are stored vs where they are run. Basically in this instance the server is just operating as a shared hard drive nothing more.

The only thing you will not be able to do without a windows server is schedule the pcindex9.exe program to automatically run on the server. Doing the reindex on the server is a little more efficient because the data files don't have to move through the network wire. This could still be scheduled to run on a workstation, but since they are not left on, that could be a problem.

Cool ... didn't realize that. I'll have to file that one in the back of my mind so I don't give out the wrong 'peer advice'

[nmcfw]

Thanks to all who have responded. The "security" issues are that we don't want the Treasurer to have to go to the Pastor's office and boot up his PC (which requires logging in) every time he wants to update financial records, or vice versa. And our peer-peer windows network will NOT recognize a drive until the "server" PC has booted with a valid IP address and launched the network driver portion of the OS and logged onto. As I said, for several reasons, we turn off the PCs when the "owner" is not in the office, partially because of utility reasons where the heat is shut off to avoid tripping circuit breakers when other areas of the building are heated (old wiring).Most UPS won't run for more than 15-30 minutes. We've lost several PCs in the past due to power shutting off while running, so thats why they are now off unless the office is in use. The pastors, secretary, and treasurer are rarely in their offices at the same time, which is why I installed the network file server.

Based on comments from Jeff, I'll go ahead and see if we can make it run on the Snap Server. Right now my biggest problem is I can't find a PC that will run the PC+ CD install disc. It starts, begins copying files, then hangs up or else pops up a "corrupted file" dialog box. One PC wouldn't even load the install program-just hunted endlessly. I think we have a poor quality CD. May have to get it replaced.
Thanks again, and I'll post a response here if and when I'm successful in installing PC+.
Leon
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Hi,

what security issues are you worried about ?? Don't those two PC's have passwords that will secure them from access?

No one needs to be logged on to the machines for the Powerchurch drive to be accessable. As far as power outages, I would spend the money for two UPSs even if I didn't need to keep the machines running, as a power outage can affect the systems no matter what.


1. How many machines will be networked?
2. What time are they most likely being used ?
3. What OSs are you using?[/quote]

[Jeff]

Leon,

Please do report back and let us know how the snap server works. I've looked at them before for a backup server/ backup device but decided to go a different route.

Right now my biggest problem is I can't find a PC that will run the PC+ CD install disc.

Try copying the pc9install.exe from the CD to the hard drive and then running the install from your hard drive rather than the CD. This file will be found in the exe folder on the CD. Sometimes you can copy the file easier than running it from the CD. If not call support and we will get another cd on its way to you.

[foxygramps]

Many UPS's come with software that can safely shutdown the associated PC in the event of a power failure

[nmcfw]

Hello, I promised to post the results of trying to run PC+9 on a NAS file server (adaptec Snap Server 1100) . After some trial and error, I finally have it installed and so far it seems to run fine, although we are just now starting to configure and do data entry. Here is what I had to do:
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1. Install PC+9 on one of the local PCs in default C: drive directory.
2. Set up a hidden file share on the SnapServer (ie., PowerChurch$) and use the Snap OS configuration to set user access/security priviledges to that share.
3. Map a network drive on all network PCs to the server share (ie., map drive M: to \\servername\PowerChurch$ using Windows Explorer Tools menu, and select "reconnect at logon").
4. On the local PC, run PC+9 at least once to create empty datafiles and enter registration code, address, etc.
5. Copy the ENTIRE contents of the C:\Powerchurch directory of the local PC to the M: drive (in other words, the file server share).
6. Delete the Desktop and start menu PowerChurch items from first PC (or leave the files as backup, and just delete the desktop shortcut and start menu entry).
7. From each of the networked PCs (including the first), open the "M" drive and click/run "netsetup9.exe". (This installs some files on the local C drive, so administrative logon rights are required). This puts a PC+9 shortcut on the desktop and automatically maps to the M:\data folder to access the database.
8. Click on the desktop PC+9 icon on each networked computer to launch the program and voila, you are running a shared PC+9 database program!
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So far I have tried editing one membership record while another PC also had the database open and didn't run into any problems. Our network is a peer-peer 100BaseT and doesn't use any DNS or routers (and no Internet connection at the church to complicate security issues).
After getting past some issues with Win XP DVD/CD combo drives not reading the burned install CD successfully (cured by loading it on an older Win98 with 32x CD-ROM drive and copying to other PCs) PC+9 installed easily on all PCs, except the Win98SE had to reboot a couple of times while it added MDAC components. When using the program, I have not seen any difference in response speed between the Win98SE and Win XP Pro computers, but again we are just getting started with data entry.

Thanks for the tips, and hopefully our experience will help others who want to set up an inexpensive network attached file server so that they don't have to keep a full PC running at all times.
Leon[/list]

[NeilZ]

Quick question.

Wouldn't it have been easier to create the network share, map the drive to the PC, then do the install from a PC to that network share ??

[nmcfw]

Perhaps, but I think that when I tried that if failed, probably due to problems reading the CD. I eventually found an older 32x CD-ROM drive would read the install disc successfully and made a copy from that to install on the new PCs with DVD/CD combo drives as described. Maybe next week when I go back to the church I'll try your suggestion.

[JohnM]

Hi.

We at Pilgrim UCC are currently running Power Church 9 on 6 computers with a 80GB Snap file server. It runs quite well for most applications. Some year end applications take some time. (i.e. large file access)

Let me know if you want more specifics on the install.

John.