Speaking of Linux

Ron Ford · Post by **Ron Ford** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:56 pm

With the coming demise of Windows XP, I'm thinking seriously about operating systems. We have a network of ten workstations and one server. Converting all this to Vista within two years (which will mean new hardware throughout the system) is going to be painful.

One option I'm seriously considering (for philosophical reasons as well as the obvious financial concerns) is a Linux package (Ubuntu) for the server and all workstations.

Question is - are you contemplating releasing a linux version anytime soon? PC+ is the only significant application we use for which there is not a linux equivalent. I suppose it could be run under a windows emulator, but a native program would likely be preferable.

Thoughts?

Post by **Zaphod** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:02 pm

I've had varying degrees of success getting PowerChurch to run under Linux. It seems that the versions prior to 8 run ok under Wine, but the later versions - not so much. Linux works fine as a file server to host PowerChurch data files though. I haven't tried Crossover to see how that works.

There aren't any plans to *deliberately* create a separate Linux version, but we are planning on moving to .NET within the next few years (version 12 at the earliest), and depending on the status of the mono project (http://www.mono-project.com), it might be something that can happen. Of course, this is not an official announcement of anything, I'm speaking purely from personal experience.

That said, PowerChurch Online has a Linux client that seems to work pretty well. I've tested it under Ubuntu and Fedora, and both run fine. If you're not familiar with PowerChurch Online, we've started offering a service where we host the application and data, and you can access over the internet. There are clients for Windows, Mac, Linux, and even Pocket PC/Windows Mobile.

More information is here: http://www.powerchurch.com/online/

mikesg · Post by **mikesg** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:05 pm

XP isn't being sold in stores soon. This isn't what "demise" means. It's supported via mainstream support for almost another year and extended support (meaning any critical updates) until 4/8/2014. So, keep using it. Even Windows 2000 is supported for another year and a half. They would do better to support Apple before Linux anyway. Mac's in church are on the increase big time.

NeilZ · Post by **NeilZ** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:15 pm

mikesg wrote:XP isn't being sold in stores soon. This isn't what "demise" means. It's supported via mainstream support for almost another year and extended support (meaning any critical updates) until 4/8/2014. So, keep using it. Even Windows 2000 is supported for another year and a half. They would do better to support Apple before Linux anyway. Mac's in church are on the increase big time.

FWIW ... you could use WinXP without issues for the next 5 years without worrying about changing to a new M$ operating system. Most of the main issues with XP have been fixed, and as has been said, M$ will still be supporting it for the next year and a half.

That said, there are many large businesses that are pressing M$ to NOT stop selling or supporting XP. I doubt that there will be much they can do, but I do know that businesses are not rushing to Vista at the level that M$ expected.

BobM · Post by **BobM** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:17 pm

Zaphod wrote:I've had varying degrees of success getting PowerChurch to run under Linux. It seems that the versions prior to 8 run ok under Wine, but the later versions - not so much. Linux works fine as a file server to host PowerChurch data files though. I haven't tried Crossover to see how that works.

True enough. I tried it last night in wine 1.1.2 (the latest git) and it would not even load. In wine 1.0.0 the logo for the install program will load, but that's it. I had to terminate it in memory.

That said, PowerChurch Online has a Linux client that seems to work pretty well. I've tested it under Ubuntu and Fedora, and both run fine. If you're not familiar with PowerChurch Online, we've started offering a service where we host the application and data, and you can access over the internet. There are clients for Windows, Mac, Linux, and even Pocket PC/Windows Mobile.

I checked out the site. I see a couple of issues for a small church like ours. First, we only have DSL, so I'll have to try the demo from church to see how the limited bandwidth works out. Also, the online version comes at a pretty high price for a small church, especially if we cannot get restores from the system backup. That's traditionally one of the benefits of offsite hosting. We also only have one person who uses the software, so don't need a multiple license.

I am seeking out ways to get off of M$ at the church for stability, cost and flexibility reasons. I have Linux solutions for everything except PowerChurch. I had high hopes for a few minutes until I saw the PC Online price.

Is the PC 10.x database compatible with a downgrade to version 8.0 which you say will work under wine? If not, can it be converted? I don't use PC myself, so am new to this particular game. Thanks.

NeilZ · Post by **NeilZ** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:54 pm

BobM wrote: Is the PC 10.x database compatible with a downgrade to version 8.0 which you say will work under wine? If not, can it be converted? I don't use PC myself, so am new to this particular game. Thanks.

No, the database is not compatible as there have been major table changes. I can understand the desire to move of Windows, however, Windows XP SP3 iis fairly rock solid (should be after 8 years). If you have a fairly recent machine (post 2003), adding another GIG of RAM will definitely help speed it up, and provide additional stability.

FWIW ... I tried running PCPLUS 9 (all I have at home) under Debian with Wine .9x. It installed OK, but it kept giving .DLL read errors to the Foxpro runtimes when I tried to run it. I've downloaded the latest version of Crossover to see what happens under it

BobM · Post by **BobM** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:00 pm

NeilZ wrote:No, the database is not compatible as there have been major table changes. I can understand the desire to move of Windows, however, Windows XP SP3 iis fairly rock solid (should be after 8 years). If you have a fairly recent machine (post 2003), adding another GIG of RAM will definitely help speed it up, and provide additional stability.

Bad news on the database. I built the machine at church. It is maxed out on RAM, etc. It runs XP fine but Windows routinely becomes corrupted. I'm also an open source guy at heart and prefer not to be held hostage by M$. As we expand, Lord willing, I want to avoid feeding an expensive M$ habit.

I've downloaded the latest version of Crossover to see what happens under it

I look forward to hearing how that works out. I'm running VMWare at home, which runs everything but it's too complex and expensive for church use. I may take Win4Lin 5 for a spin to see how complex it is to use if Crossover doesn't work out. They have a special price for Ubuntu.

NeilZ · Post by **NeilZ** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:05 pm

BobM wrote:
NeilZ wrote:No, the database is not compatible as there have been major table changes. I can understand the desire to move of Windows, however, Windows XP SP3 iis fairly rock solid (should be after 8 years). If you have a fairly recent machine (post 2003), adding another GIG of RAM will definitely help speed it up, and provide additional stability.
Bad news on the database. I built the machine at church. It is maxed out on RAM, etc. It runs XP fine but Windows routinely becomes corrupted. I'm also an open source guy at heart and prefer not to be held hostage by M$. As we expand, Lord willing, I want to avoid feeding an expensive M$ habit.

I've downloaded the latest version of Crossover to see what happens under it
I look forward to hearing how that works out. I'm running VMWare at home, which runs everything but it's too complex and expensive for church use. I may take Win4Lin 5 for a spin to see how complex it is to use if Crossover doesn't work out. They have a special price for Ubuntu.

Kept getting an error when starting PC v9, something about a background error from Foxpro. You may want to see if something else works.

I can understand about not wanting to feed M$, but I hate to say it, Windows getting corrupted regularly is very unusual. If I had to point to a cause, I'd say user error.

BobM · Post by **BobM** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:30 pm

NeilZ wrote:I can understand about not wanting to feed M$, but I hate to say it, Windows getting corrupted regularly is very unusual. If I had to point to a cause, I'd say user error.

Not all that unusual in my experience. It happened regularly at work. It highly depends on your combination of low-level utilities (security, AV, etc.) and hardware drivers. Complex system utilities, apps, and drivers that dig deep into the OS don't usually play well together.

NeilZ · Post by **NeilZ** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:55 pm

BobM wrote:
NeilZ wrote:I can understand about not wanting to feed M$, but I hate to say it, Windows getting corrupted regularly is very unusual. If I had to point to a cause, I'd say user error.
Not all that unusual in my experience. It happened regularly at work. It highly depends on your combination of low-level utilities (security, AV, etc.) and hardware drivers. Complex system utilities, apps, and drivers that dig deep into the OS don't usually play well together.

Must be a heck of a mix ... I do alot of desktop support and try to keep it simple.

AVG or Norton for firewall or antivirus, and not alot of other stuff. I also keep the users from loading up 'helper' applications, etc.

Anyway ... the error I'm seeing may be something that's easily fixed playing with the configuration. I'll play with it more tomorrow if I have the time.

NeilZ · Post by **NeilZ** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:35 pm

BTW ... guys here's the error I get when running PC9 in CrossOver:

Fatal error: Exception code=80000100 @ 07/27/2008 04:40:29 PM. Error log file: C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VFP\vfp8rerr.log
Called from - app.showscreenbackground line 197 {c:\pc90source\pcapp.vct c:\pc90source\pcapp.vct}
Called from - pc line 132 {C:\PowerChurch\PCPLUS9\pc.prg c:\powerchurch\pcplus9\pcplus9.exe}

rossocampbell · Post by **rossocampbell** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:59 pm

NeilZ wrote:BTW ... guys here's the error I get when running PC9 in CrossOver:

Fatal error: Exception code=80000100 @ 07/27/2008 04:40:29 PM. Error log file: C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VFP\vfp8rerr.log
Called from - app.showscreenbackground line 197 {c:\pc90source\pcapp.vct c:\pc90source\pcapp.vct}
Called from - pc line 132 {C:\PowerChurch\PCPLUS9\pc.prg c:\powerchurch\pcplus9\pcplus9.exe}

Apparently it is failing trying to load the background image. I worked around this one by moving all of the image files from the pcplus9/background folder (I did leave Icons.jpg in there, though).

I think the next problem I had was an error loading msvcrt20.dll, which I got from dll-files. However, looking at my system now I see this:

rpm -qf /usr/lib/wine/msvcrt20.dll.so
wine-core-1.0-1.fc9.i386

Oh, I'm running on Fedora Core 9 and I believe I may have received a wine update since the original issue with msvcrt20.dll.

After the msvcrt20.dll problem was solved pcplus9 appeared to work. Reports, however, were not readable so I installed the ms core fonts from the corefonts project at sourceforge. That seemed to straighten out the report I was viewing.

I haven't really used this setup to create any transactions yet, but it looks promising.

Ross