I've just taken over the Financial Secretary duties and am trying (operative word) to get started entering contribution data. Because we don't want to corrupt our attendence or membership data, I plan to do this on a stand-alone laptop. (Ultimately the Secretary will handle the data entry under my supervision.) In any case, I got a full "backup" of the data from the former Financial Secretary. We checked the backup and verified that there were no errors. I've got it on both a floppy disk and a flash drive.
I've loaded the software and have now tried numerous times to "restore" the data. Everytime I've attempted to "restore", I get an error message "PowerChurch Plus has encountered a problem and needs to close....." I'm getting really tired of this. I've even deinstalled and reinstalled the software. Does anyone have any idea on what I can do? The backup is a zip file. Can I unzip and have that program put the data "into" the PowerChurch program? I'm at a loss and am getting "fed up" with the program!
Help will be greatly appreciate. (By the way, all of my other programs work fine!)
Thanks,
Margaret
Failure to Restore
Moderators: Moderators, Tech Support
Re: Failure to Restore
The backup you're trying to restore, is it only the Contributions data, or the entire database?? Also, was it backed up using the Powerchurch backup utility. You didn't mention what version of the program you're using, nor what version of Windows.Margaret wrote:I've just taken over the Financial Secretary duties and am trying (operative word) to get started entering contribution data. Because we don't want to corrupt our attendence or membership data, I plan to do this on a stand-alone laptop. (Ultimately the Secretary will handle the data entry under my supervision.) In any case, I got a full "backup" of the data from the former Financial Secretary. We checked the backup and verified that there were no errors. I've got it on both a floppy disk and a flash drive.
I've loaded the software and have now tried numerous times to "restore" the data. Everytime I've attempted to "restore", I get an error message "PowerChurch Plus has encountered a problem and needs to close....." I'm getting really tired of this. I've even deinstalled and reinstalled the software. Does anyone have any idea on what I can do? The backup is a zip file. Can I unzip and have that program put the data "into" the PowerChurch program? I'm at a loss and am getting "fed up" with the program!
Help will be greatly appreciate. (By the way, all of my other programs work fine!)
Thanks,
Margaret
You mentioned that you're installing the program on a laptop, how are you installing it? Are you telling the setup program that you're installing new, or are converting from an older program??
FWIW ... you will not corrupt your attendance or membership data by entering Contributions. They are different parts of the database, in fact you will need to have a up-to-date copy of the membership info in order to properly enter the Contributions data.
While the Membership data is in a different set of database files, the envelope number is used as the bridge between Membership and Contributions. Using a full backup of the database as the basis for your restoration of the data would keep that data in sync.
In fact, what I would do is just update the contributions data on the main database, and forget trying to do is on a separate database. Much easier to do, since the historical data is already there, and you won't have to worry about having to add membership data to the membership database if you find that you have a new contributor.
You may also want to look at revising the way you have Contributions data entered. If you have a counting team, you may want to train someone on how to enter the data as they count. You can then verify their data entry afterwards when you get the deposit receipt back from the bank.
Neil Zampella
Using PC+ since 1999.
Using PC+ since 1999.
Re: Failure to Restore
Neil,
Some short history - My church has had and used PowerChurch for many years as I think it was the "only" software for churches. In 1999, we started using QuickBooks for Non-Profits and use it to this day for all of our Accounting. This will not change unless QuickBooks no longer provides software for Non-Profits. Subsequently, we used PowerChurch ONLY for recording contributions and for tracking attendence. (I'll discuss this more at the end of this posting.)
1. I was attempting to restore the Contributions database. The data was "backed up" using the PowerChurch software system on the former Financial Secretary's computer. We verified the backup prior to exiting the program.
2. We're using PowerChurch 10.4 and I installed it on my laptop with used Windows XP. Initially I only installed Version 10.4. Late yesterday, I deinstalled Version 10.4. I then started with our first version 8 and installed it. I then installed Version 8.5 and finally installed Version 10.4. Each time, I told the system that we had a prior version. Something finally "clicked" and I was able to get 10.4 to "restore" using the backup files that we had created on Friday.
3. As we have changed to a fiscal year system, I then modified the Accounting Setup options to show that the fiscal year starts in July.
4. I then started to enter the pledges and by late Saturday night, I had gotten July and part of August done. I'm now entering September 12th and am only 2 weeks behind. YEAH. My problem now is that the system has not wanted to create a backup file! The minute that I attempted to use the Utility - Backup and Restore files, I get a Microsoft error message that PowerChurch closing the program! Well I just tried it again as I was writing this posting and I think you must be praying for me as it FINALLY worked. Thank you Lord!!!! I will now get "caught up" and then again back it up!
On the issue of Membership and Contributions, our experience with PowerChurch has been less than pleaant. Maybe it is "operator or setup error." When someone new makes a donation, I have to "add a contributor." This automatically adds that information in the Membership database creating a family and personal profit. At the church, we do NOT want our membership database cluttered with these entries. The church office along with the Membership Chair when through the database for attendence tracking and deleted all of the unwanted entries. They have a criteria for when someone is entered into the database and what is tracked.
We've found (the hardway) that if we attempt to input the Financial Secretary's data, it will overwrite the membership data kept by our Secretary. This is the reason that I intended to set up the contributions on a free-standing laptop. We can then enter the contribution without affecting the information on membership or visitors that we do want to keep. I have to be honest. I inherited this system. The prior Pastor selected it and I'm fairly sure that some of our problems probably relate to how the system was setup and lack of training. But at this point, I'm frankly "done." We intend to continue the software through at least the end of the year. But we're going to look at other systems. I'm not sure what we ultimately find or do. But I don't like having to have 2 separate "systems." Also, our new Pastor has her own ideas of what she expects. She's used to Shelby Church as she came from a mega-church but that system is really much more than we need. Anyway - please keep praying that the software continues to work! And if you've got any idea why Backup and Restore doesn't want to work every time - please let me know!
Thanks,
Margaret
Some short history - My church has had and used PowerChurch for many years as I think it was the "only" software for churches. In 1999, we started using QuickBooks for Non-Profits and use it to this day for all of our Accounting. This will not change unless QuickBooks no longer provides software for Non-Profits. Subsequently, we used PowerChurch ONLY for recording contributions and for tracking attendence. (I'll discuss this more at the end of this posting.)
1. I was attempting to restore the Contributions database. The data was "backed up" using the PowerChurch software system on the former Financial Secretary's computer. We verified the backup prior to exiting the program.
2. We're using PowerChurch 10.4 and I installed it on my laptop with used Windows XP. Initially I only installed Version 10.4. Late yesterday, I deinstalled Version 10.4. I then started with our first version 8 and installed it. I then installed Version 8.5 and finally installed Version 10.4. Each time, I told the system that we had a prior version. Something finally "clicked" and I was able to get 10.4 to "restore" using the backup files that we had created on Friday.
3. As we have changed to a fiscal year system, I then modified the Accounting Setup options to show that the fiscal year starts in July.
4. I then started to enter the pledges and by late Saturday night, I had gotten July and part of August done. I'm now entering September 12th and am only 2 weeks behind. YEAH. My problem now is that the system has not wanted to create a backup file! The minute that I attempted to use the Utility - Backup and Restore files, I get a Microsoft error message that PowerChurch closing the program! Well I just tried it again as I was writing this posting and I think you must be praying for me as it FINALLY worked. Thank you Lord!!!! I will now get "caught up" and then again back it up!
On the issue of Membership and Contributions, our experience with PowerChurch has been less than pleaant. Maybe it is "operator or setup error." When someone new makes a donation, I have to "add a contributor." This automatically adds that information in the Membership database creating a family and personal profit. At the church, we do NOT want our membership database cluttered with these entries. The church office along with the Membership Chair when through the database for attendence tracking and deleted all of the unwanted entries. They have a criteria for when someone is entered into the database and what is tracked.
We've found (the hardway) that if we attempt to input the Financial Secretary's data, it will overwrite the membership data kept by our Secretary. This is the reason that I intended to set up the contributions on a free-standing laptop. We can then enter the contribution without affecting the information on membership or visitors that we do want to keep. I have to be honest. I inherited this system. The prior Pastor selected it and I'm fairly sure that some of our problems probably relate to how the system was setup and lack of training. But at this point, I'm frankly "done." We intend to continue the software through at least the end of the year. But we're going to look at other systems. I'm not sure what we ultimately find or do. But I don't like having to have 2 separate "systems." Also, our new Pastor has her own ideas of what she expects. She's used to Shelby Church as she came from a mega-church but that system is really much more than we need. Anyway - please keep praying that the software continues to work! And if you've got any idea why Backup and Restore doesn't want to work every time - please let me know!
Thanks,
Margaret
Re: Failure to Restore
Glad to hear that you have it running.
The problem is that the church staff does not understand how the different Mailing List and Personal Profile statuses are used to differentiate the visitor who contributes a check, and the member who contributes. So your member family has a Mailing List status of Member, and each personal profile is listed as Member. A visitor would have a Mailing List and Personal Profile status of visitor.
Using this method you have the data you need to send any contributor an end-of-year statement. You also have a way of tracking visitors attending your services using the attendance module in Membership. That is how the system should be used.
Now some personal thoughts of mine over your church 'chucking it all' and starting over:
Shelby is VERY expensive, and very hardware intensive. Its really more power than you need. However, it still uses the same type of database setup that Powerchurch does, one database that contains all the addresses of visitors and members. So if you have problems now, you'll have problems later.
Using Quickbooks for your accounting was probably done because the person who initially was Treasurer does not understand, or could not setup for double entry funds accounting. Buying Shelby is not going to change this either as Funds Accounting in most church systems, is a double entry accounting. I'm almost certain that Shelby is also a 'cash based' accountancy system.
My wife and I (both software engineers) went through every available church software package back in 1999. We found that Shelby (at that time) was overpriced, and required too much hardware to run. Today, Shelby won't even list their hardware requirements on their website, nor do they list pricing.
Powerchurch, over the past 11 years, has continued to be improved and to incorporate suggestions from its users, and the price has not gone up all that much (considering inflation) since 1999.
I believe that your church is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. They have a integrated tool that will do everything they would like it to do, but have never set it up properly to give the types of reports and data that they need.
There is training available via the website, along with on-site training that is available, and probably more cost effective than having to relearn everything all over again.
This is not an operator or setup error, this is the way the program was designed. Membership and Contributions work together using the envelope number to tie in the data entered in the membership area of the database, to the Contributions data. Otherwise you'd have two separate databases with address information which can be a nightmare to keep in sync.Margaret wrote:Neil,
On the issue of Membership and Contributions, our experience with PowerChurch has been less than pleaant. Maybe it is "operator or setup error." When someone new makes a donation, I have to "add a contributor." This automatically adds that information in the Membership database creating a family and personal profit. At the church, we do NOT want our membership database cluttered with these entries. The church office along with the Membership Chair when through the database for attendence tracking and deleted all of the unwanted entries. They have a criteria for when someone is entered into the database and what is tracked.
The problem is that the church staff does not understand how the different Mailing List and Personal Profile statuses are used to differentiate the visitor who contributes a check, and the member who contributes. So your member family has a Mailing List status of Member, and each personal profile is listed as Member. A visitor would have a Mailing List and Personal Profile status of visitor.
Using this method you have the data you need to send any contributor an end-of-year statement. You also have a way of tracking visitors attending your services using the attendance module in Membership. That is how the system should be used.
About the backup, I'd make sure that you have the latest update to Powerchurch 10.4 installed on your system released this past July. Not knowing the version 10.4 date you have installed, I can only assume that some of the fixes have not been installed. Also, not knowing what type of media (CD, floppy, USB drive) you're trying to backup to makes any determination of why you're having a backup problem hard to make.We've found (the hardway) that if we attempt to input the Financial Secretary's data, it will overwrite the membership data kept by our Secretary. This is the reason that I intended to set up the contributions on a free-standing laptop. We can then enter the contribution without affecting the information on membership or visitors that we do want to keep. I have to be honest. I inherited this system. The prior Pastor selected it and I'm fairly sure that some of our problems probably relate to how the system was setup and lack of training. But at this point, I'm frankly "done." We intend to continue the software through at least the end of the year. But we're going to look at other systems. I'm not sure what we ultimately find or do. But I don't like having to have 2 separate "systems." Also, our new Pastor has her own ideas of what she expects. She's used to Shelby Church as she came from a mega-church but that system is really much more than we need. Anyway - please keep praying that the software continues to work! And if you've got any idea why Backup and Restore doesn't want to work every time - please let me know!
Thanks,
Margaret
Now some personal thoughts of mine over your church 'chucking it all' and starting over:
Shelby is VERY expensive, and very hardware intensive. Its really more power than you need. However, it still uses the same type of database setup that Powerchurch does, one database that contains all the addresses of visitors and members. So if you have problems now, you'll have problems later.
Using Quickbooks for your accounting was probably done because the person who initially was Treasurer does not understand, or could not setup for double entry funds accounting. Buying Shelby is not going to change this either as Funds Accounting in most church systems, is a double entry accounting. I'm almost certain that Shelby is also a 'cash based' accountancy system.
My wife and I (both software engineers) went through every available church software package back in 1999. We found that Shelby (at that time) was overpriced, and required too much hardware to run. Today, Shelby won't even list their hardware requirements on their website, nor do they list pricing.
Powerchurch, over the past 11 years, has continued to be improved and to incorporate suggestions from its users, and the price has not gone up all that much (considering inflation) since 1999.
I believe that your church is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. They have a integrated tool that will do everything they would like it to do, but have never set it up properly to give the types of reports and data that they need.
There is training available via the website, along with on-site training that is available, and probably more cost effective than having to relearn everything all over again.
Neil Zampella
Using PC+ since 1999.
Using PC+ since 1999.
-
Eden Whitehead
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:59 pm
- Location: Old Hickory Presbyterian Church Old Hickory, TN
Re: Failure to Restore
Margaret,
I just want to say "ditto" to what Neil has said about the value of PowerChurch software.
I'm not an accountant and didn't even have bookkeeping experience (outside of maintaining home finances) when I was hired for the job. At the time, the church was using an older version of ACS. The documentation was worthless; support was too expensive for the church; and I had 8 hours of training by my predecessor before I was pushed off the deep end. It was a nightmare!
The church finally decided it was time either to invest in an upgrade of the existing ACS or purchase new software. I was tasked with researching and making a recommendation. My research was not nearly as extensive as Neil's but after looking at a half dozen or so possibilities, I recommended PC+. The church accepted my recommendation.
I studied the manual and read pretty much everything on the forums and dove in. It has been a delight to use this software! The times I've run into a glitch (due to my ignorance, not any problems with the program itself), the people on this forum have given me solid guidance. In 3 years time I have yet to use 1 minute of the 90-day free support that comes with the purchase (and, if it is still the case, the 90-day clock doesn't even start ticking until you make your first call for support). I can't imagine there is another product that comes close to the quality and value-for-price of PowerChurch Plus! (And, no, I don't work for them; don't know anyone on their staff, except via the forums.)
Hope this helps,
Eden
I just want to say "ditto" to what Neil has said about the value of PowerChurch software.
I'm not an accountant and didn't even have bookkeeping experience (outside of maintaining home finances) when I was hired for the job. At the time, the church was using an older version of ACS. The documentation was worthless; support was too expensive for the church; and I had 8 hours of training by my predecessor before I was pushed off the deep end. It was a nightmare!
The church finally decided it was time either to invest in an upgrade of the existing ACS or purchase new software. I was tasked with researching and making a recommendation. My research was not nearly as extensive as Neil's but after looking at a half dozen or so possibilities, I recommended PC+. The church accepted my recommendation.
I studied the manual and read pretty much everything on the forums and dove in. It has been a delight to use this software! The times I've run into a glitch (due to my ignorance, not any problems with the program itself), the people on this forum have given me solid guidance. In 3 years time I have yet to use 1 minute of the 90-day free support that comes with the purchase (and, if it is still the case, the 90-day clock doesn't even start ticking until you make your first call for support). I can't imagine there is another product that comes close to the quality and value-for-price of PowerChurch Plus! (And, no, I don't work for them; don't know anyone on their staff, except via the forums.)
Hope this helps,
Eden
*Still* learning... and gratefully so!
Re: Failure to Restore
margaret,
just to add my 2 cents and also echo what Neil was saying. It is totally understandable about wanting to keep your actual member lists "clean". But the fact of life is that a church is composed of more than members or even regular attenders. The beauty of PC is that it will let you handle all the circumstances, you just need to have things set up correctly. And yes, sometimes that is a trial and error process until you see what works well for your church. As Eden said, this forum is tremendous for getting technical help as well as experienced guidance on these issues.
In addition to setting up multiple mailing list values (member, visitor, etc) you can also use a numbering scheme with your contribution envelope numbers to help separate contributions coming from different areas.
There is a thread on here that discusses that and gives recommendations for the numbering.
good Luck!
Debbie
just to add my 2 cents and also echo what Neil was saying. It is totally understandable about wanting to keep your actual member lists "clean". But the fact of life is that a church is composed of more than members or even regular attenders. The beauty of PC is that it will let you handle all the circumstances, you just need to have things set up correctly. And yes, sometimes that is a trial and error process until you see what works well for your church. As Eden said, this forum is tremendous for getting technical help as well as experienced guidance on these issues.
In addition to setting up multiple mailing list values (member, visitor, etc) you can also use a numbering scheme with your contribution envelope numbers to help separate contributions coming from different areas.
There is a thread on here that discusses that and gives recommendations for the numbering.
good Luck!
Debbie