User Support Forum

Why does PC+ (v9) allow identical personal profiles within the same family profile . I am speaking of PC+ will allow two or more people with the identical name john smith & John smith within the same family profile. I can understand if the names were John Smith & John Smith II or Jr.

Also when one is entering contributions & comes across giving from a donor who may or may not be a member, why can't we locate that person if he has a personal profile but is not a member (& has no number).

I notice that PC+ will allow one to setup a new family & a new personal profile through the contrbution module, however it will not allow one to add a personal profile to an already established family profile in the system.

Am I wrong?

It seems like PC+ "givith & taketh" away.

Tom

Tom,

For your first question, I think that it is up to you to ensure that no duplicates occur. PC+ does differentiate within a family profile for spouses (numbers 1 and 2) with following numbers being children within the household.

With contributions, you do have an opportunity to search/edit for another contributor including a person who does not currently have an envelope number assigned. I'm not in front of a computer running PC+, so I can't verify the specifics.

On your last comment, I believe you are correct. That is really a membership module function.

Hope this helps,

Jeff

jeffkoke wrote:Tom,

For your first question, I think that it is up to you to ensure that no duplicates occur. PC+ does differentiate within a family profile for spouses (numbers 1 and 2) with following numbers being children within the household.

With contributions, you do have an opportunity to search/edit for another contributor including a person who does not currently have an envelope number assigned. I'm not in front of a computer running PC+, so I can't verify the specifics.

On your last comment, I believe you are correct. That is really a membership module function.

Hope this helps,

Jeff

Jeff .. you are correct about the contributions search.

Tom ... what I have my counters do is this:

1. If you can't find the person in the contributors list
2. Proceed as if to add a new contributor. Enter the LAST NAME only.

Now it becomes an 'if then else' loop:
IF you get the dialogue that says a record exists for that name,
THEN click on the EDIT button.

• IF you see the person as listed,
  THEN use them
  ELSE IF you see someone with the same last name and
  address, use them. 9 times out of 10, that is the
  spouse of the person listed, and they are second time
  visitors and this time the other spouse wrote the check
  on their account. You may want to make note of the
  name on the check to pass on to the membership
  secretary
  
  ELSE click on the back button and enter them as new

ELSE IF you get the dialogue asking for address
THEN hit the back button and enter the first name and enter
then as new


I hope you can see the flow here ...

Jeff & Neil,

I believe that PC+ has the best help system in the business, however I must take serious issue with Jeff's comment, that it is the user's responsibility to ensure that no duplicate personal profiles are entered into the system.

I do see where Jeff is coming from in regards to duplicates, I even have a female cousin who named here daughter after her. We in the family refer to them as big Mary & little Mary. With males Jr or II, III solves this problem. So in a way I understand Jeff's point.

In a church enviornment, one is usually working with users (counters) who are not familiar with computers. Since our data is so important, don't you think that they should be at least warned through a dilog box question before a duplicate profile is entered within the same family?

Remember once contributions are entered, even one cent, that profile can not be deleted.

Remember I am talking about counters who find themselves having to enter personal profiles through the contribution module.

All in all, should not the wish list people consider this issue.

Tom

SBCTrustee wrote:Jeff & Neil,

I believe that PC+ has the best help system in the business, however I must take serious issue with Jeff's comment, that it is the user's responsibility to ensure that no duplicate personal profiles are entered into the system.

I do see where Jeff is coming from in regards to duplicates, I even have a female cousin who named here daughter after her. We in the family refer to them as big Mary & little Mary. With males Jr or II, III solves this problem. So in a way I understand Jeff's point.

In a church enviornment, one is usually working with users (counters) who are not familiar with computers. Since our data is so important, don't you think that they should be at least warned through a dilog box question before a duplicate profile is entered within the same family?

Remember once contributions are entered, even one cent, that profile can not be deleted.

Remember I am talking about counters who find themselves having to enter personal profiles through the contribution module.

All in all, should not the wish list people consider this issue.

Tom

Tom ...

counter's CANNOT enter a dupliate personal profile directly to a family, they can only enter a personal profile by entering a new family. That said, the system DOES NOT index by names. It would be an impossible task, just think about how many John Smiths there are in the phone book.

The system indexes by family profile (and the index again, is not a name), then the personal profiles are indexed off that main record as 1, 2 or 3.

And you are correct, contributions once entered SHOULD NOT be deleted, note I did not say CANNOT, as you can delete a profile with contributions. The amount will then get added to a default system number.

However, you can move the contribution to the correct account in this manner:

1. Locate the correct family record for the person added in error.
2. MOVE the personal profile to that family
3. CHANGE the envelope number on the incorrectly added profile to the family's envelope number. This moves all the contributions to the correct account.
4. Delete the incorrectly added personal and family profile.

It is a very easy process, and I do it about once every other month or so.

About training counters ... our financial secretary spends two or three sessions with a new counter before we leave the team to themselves. We're also available by phone if there is an issue.

We also give them a manual with snapshots of all the entry dialogues so they can refer to it when needed. Bascially, if they follow the steps I outlined, they hardly have any issues.

Finally, our Clerk of Session, who keeps an eye on visitors, etc, is another set of eyes that lets us know of duplicates. All in all, there are checks and balances to make sure that duplicates don't remain in the system for any length of time.

SBCTrustee wrote:Jeff & Neil,

I believe that PC+ has the best help system in the business, however I must take serious issue with Jeff's comment, that it is the user's responsibility to ensure that no duplicate personal profiles are entered into the system.

I do see where Jeff is coming from in regards to duplicates, I even have a female cousin who named here daughter after her. We in the family refer to them as big Mary & little Mary. With males Jr or II, III solves this problem. So in a way I understand Jeff's point.

In a church enviornment, one is usually working with users (counters) who are not familiar with computers. Since our data is so important, don't you think that they should be at least warned through a dilog box question before a duplicate profile is entered within the same family?

All in all, should not the wish list people consider this issue.

Tom

Tom,

What I think you need is a defined business process in order to handle the situation you outlined.

You can make the software only so "smart."

Are your counters defined in PC+ as "contributions only" users? If so, that can limit what they can do in the membership module. I happen to like the way PC is setup with the predefined restrictions on this user.

Do you provide training? I do with my finance committee. I also have a powerpoint show file that they can run, if they need to review how to do something. It does not cover every case, so my phone/cell numbers are always available.

I totally agree with you that this is a vital function. That is why we take training, hand-on learning and a team environment so seriously.

Think about how to best facilitate your counters' needs.

Hope this helps.

Jeff