Modifying posted contributions

[debbieg]

After much experimentation, I thought we were ready to have the financial secretary enter all the contributions for January and see how that fit in with the accounting side. She entered all the weeks and immediately posted each one without running any kind of reports. Unfortunately, there were errors. If she had called before posting I could have made a backup and then restored so she could fix the mistakes. Instead, we are stuck with fixing these after the fact.

I read a similar topic on this thread and it suggested going ahead and posting the transactions in Accounting and then correcting it in Contributions and posting on both sides again. I guess I'm just wondering if this is going to create a reconciliation nightmare on the accounting side since a couple of the weeks had wrong totals that didn't even match the deposits. Also, on the Contribution side, does she do all the reversals and post and then make the corrections and post again? Or do you make the reversals and corrections and post everything at once?
Thanks,
Debbie

***** I meant to put this in Contribution thread but was reading something here before I posted. Sorry.
It actually applies to both sides though. dlg

[JohnDMeyers]

If you haven't already posted to Fund Accounting, don't.

It's not a big deal if you have. There are some minor reasons why it's better not to. (extra transactions in your reconciliation window, for example).

You can run a Contribution Report for Posted Contributions (ver 11, I am assuming), choose the single date and sort by either envelope or alphabet. It's too bad there isn't a data-entry order choice.

Neil, and others, may have some other ideas as well.

[NeilZ]

If you haven't already posted to Fund Accounting, don't.

It's not a big deal if you have. There are some minor reasons why it's better not to. (extra transactions in your reconciliation window, for example).

You can run a Contribution Report for Posted Contributions (ver 11, I am assuming), choose the single date and sort by either envelope or alphabet. It's too bad there isn't a data-entry order choice.

Neil, and others, may have some other ideas as well.

In this case, I agree with John as there seems to be too many corrections that need to be made.

I would fix the Funds Accounting transactions first, make sure they correspond with the actual deposits. Then have the Financial Secretary correct the contributions data, and post only to contributions.

To correct future problems with Contribution Entry, I would advise that the Financial Secretary not enter the data herself, but have someone assist in entry. This allows for two sets of eyes on the data, and it tends to eliminate errors.

My preference is to have the people who do the actual counting, do the actual entry. Then they can verify the amount of checks and cash, with what they have entered.

FInally, check your email, I've send you my direct email address, so if you reply I can send you the document I created to train our counters at another church. It provides some advice on verifying the contributions entry.

[debbieg]

I would like to have the data entered as it was counted but i don't see that happening real soon. Right now, we are trying to change the policy(habit) of counting during the worship service. There is really not a good setup now that would allow access to a computer during the counting time. Plus, our policy is to rotate counters so that would mean a whole group to train. I'm pushing for change but we're not there yet.

Meanwhile, back to corrections. I have not posted anything in Fund Acct yet. I'm not sure that I can fix those transactions stand alone because the financial secretary has all the details. In theory, I should be able to do it from the counters summary sheets but that is where I started seeing discrepancies.
But let me make sure that I am clear on something.....if I were certain what the totals were to be entered in Fund acct, then I could do that separate from the Contribution corrections as long as they were only posted in the Contribution module? I think I would like that much better because I didn't want to see all sorts of debits and credits in various accounts to get things straight.

You can be sure there will be many backups going on during this.

[NeilZ]

I would like to have the data entered as it was counted but i don't see that happening real soon. Right now, we are trying to change the policy(habit) of counting during the worship service. There is really not a good setup now that would allow access to a computer during the counting time. Plus, our policy is to rotate counters so that would mean a whole group to train. I'm pushing for change but we're not there yet.

Actually, that is how it was done at the church where we first selected and used Powerchurch. You only need one person per team who needs to know how to do the computer entry, all the others need know is how to read and count money!! Frankly, saving the counting for after all the services are over is a much better way of doing things.

Again, I can send you a copy of the tutorial I created if you want to have something that you can use later for training.

Meanwhile, back to corrections. I have not posted anything in Fund Acct yet. I'm not sure that I can fix those transactions stand alone because the financial secretary has all the details. In theory, I should be able to do it from the counters summary sheets but that is where I started seeing discrepancies.
But let me make sure that I am clear on something.....if I were certain what the totals were to be entered in Fund acct, then I could do that separate from the Contribution corrections as long as they were only posted in the Contribution module? I think I would like that much better because I didn't want to see all sorts of debits and credits in various accounts to get things straight.

You can be sure there will be many backups going on during this.

Yes, you can correct the unposted transactions sent over from Contributions. Say the counter's sheet show more money going to the building fund and less to operations than was was sent over from Contributions. You can adjust the unposted transaction to reflect that.

As an aside ... what were the types of discrepancies you were seeing??

[debbieg]

The discrepancies were mostly because she didn't notice that there were funds set up for certain items and she lumped them all together in "General Offering". Another one I believe was probably an incorrect date because one week was $125 more than the deposit and the next week was $125 short. We also have a separate Hispanic service and they take an offering and turn it in to be deposited with regular offering. There are some differences in what counters reported and what the FS was entering. I have a feeling it was probably some money that went into a specific fund but counters just lumped it all as Hispanic Ministry.

I think I feel better about the fact that I can just change the unposted transactions on the accounting side. I guess I thought that there was more of a connection between the 2 sides and that Contributions had to control the changes.

I'll send you an email for the training document. Thanks.
Debbie

[NeilZ]

The discrepancies were mostly because she didn't notice that there were funds set up for certain items and she lumped them all together in "General Offering". Another one I believe was probably an incorrect date because one week was $125 more than the deposit and the next week was $125 short. We also have a separate Hispanic service and they take an offering and turn it in to be deposited with regular offering. There are some differences in what counters reported and what the FS was entering. I have a feeling it was probably some money that went into a specific fund but counters just lumped it all as Hispanic Ministry.

I think I feel better about the fact that I can just change the unposted transactions on the accounting side. I guess I thought that there was more of a connection between the 2 sides and that Contributions had to control the changes.

I'll send you an email for the training document. Thanks.
Debbie

Sounds like a training issue on both sides, counters and Financial Sec.

The reason I initially mentioned doing the changes in Contributions, then bringing over the transactions was that in some ways, doing that can be easier; especially when there are checks that are sent back NSF, or the transactions were already posted in FA.

The only connection between FA and Contributions is that when Contributions are posted, a set of transactions can be created and passed over to FA. That's it, a one way flow, and no other attachment.

[debbieg]

Just a thought here.....could I just delete the unposted transactions that came from Contribution? when she makes corrections, will it just post a single transaction again for each date? Or will there be doubles....one for the reversal and another for the new entries?
Debbie

[NeilZ]

Just a thought here.....could I just delete the unposted transactions that came from Contribution? when she makes corrections, will it just post a single transaction again for each date? Or will there be doubles....one for the reversal and another for the new entries?
Debbie

Unfortunately no, once the Contributions are posted, its kind of like when you post in FA, you can't go back to edit, and (here's the unfortunate part) the FA transactions cannot be recreated to incorporate those changes in a new transaction. All you would get were the changes, none of the other entries.

As far as the transactions coming in from Contributions when changes are made, I believe there will be one transaction per date, but it will be made up of the debit/credit pair to subtract from one income account, to put against another. IE: subtract from Building, add to Operations.

FWIW ... they should look like the transaction from Contributions that you can view in View Unposted Transactions.