investment tracking and withdrawals

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neac
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:26 am

investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by neac »

I want to get some advice on how I should handle an investment that the church has.
It is held by a third party, and we make withdrawals from them.

When we make a withdrawal, how should I enter it into powerchurch? Should it be entered as a contribution? If I don't enter it as a contribution, it won't show up in the income and expense report.
We track the investment as an asset, so it should credit this asset account, but what should it debit?

NeilZ
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Location: Connellsville, PA
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Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by NeilZ »

neac wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:12 pm
I want to get some advice on how I should handle an investment that the church has.
It is held by a third party, and we make withdrawals from them.

When we make a withdrawal, how should I enter it into powerchurch? Should it be entered as a contribution? If I don't enter it as a contribution, it won't show up in the income and expense report.
We track the investment as an asset, so it should credit this asset account, but what should it debit?
Do you have your investments in a separate accounting fund? If so, then it would be a simple use of the transfer accounts, which do show up in the Income and Expense reports.

If you don't, then there's a slight problem. Its not a Contribution, these are assets you already have. Treating it as a Contributions says you're ADDING to your assets when, in reality, you're just moving them around.

Normally, as in the case of moving from a savings account to a checking, its a simple debit/credit transaction. This would show up on the Cash Management report and Balance Sheet showing a decrease in one and and increase in the other, but there wouldn't be anything showing up in the I&E which only tracks normal income and expenses for that accounting fund.

This is why we keep our endowment & investment in a separate accounting fund, as we can then show the transfer of funds from one account to the other on the I&E.
Neil Zampella

Using PC+ since 1999.

neac
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:26 am

Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by neac »

I knew enough not to enter it as a contribution, what I did was make a GE crediting the investment and debiting our bank account.

No, the investment is not in a different accounting fund.

We have two accounting funds:
1. General fund
2. Designated fund

Not only that, within both of these funds, the investment exists as an asset, this has always confused me, I've just never had time to look into it.

Is there a way to fix this?

NeilZ
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Location: Connellsville, PA
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Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by NeilZ »

neac wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:57 am
I knew enough not to enter it as a contribution, what I did was make a GE crediting the investment and debiting our bank account.

No, the investment is not in a different accounting fund.

We have two accounting funds:
1. General fund
2. Designated fund

Not only that, within both of these funds, the investment exists as an asset, this has always confused me, I've just never had time to look into it.

Is there a way to fix this?
The transaction is correct, as you're properly moving funds between the assets. That the investment is active in two separate funds is problematic. Are there amounts listed in the Designated Fund's account? That can cause issues later on.
Neil Zampella

Using PC+ since 1999.

neac
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:26 am

Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by neac »

Yes, there are amounts in the designated fund.

NeilZ
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:20 am
Location: Connellsville, PA
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Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by NeilZ »

neac wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:00 pm
Yes, there are amounts in the designated fund.
That is something you're going to have to watch to make sure that if the investment has gains or losses, you properly distribute them. Not much I can do to assist you there.
Neil Zampella

Using PC+ since 1999.

neac
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:26 am

Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by neac »

Could i just move the amount that's in the designated fund into the general fund?

honestly, there's so many little things that I think are probably wrong, it might just be easier for me to restart our books altogether but do it properly

NeilZ
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Location: Connellsville, PA
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Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by NeilZ »

neac wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:34 pm
Could i just move the amount that's in the designated fund into the general fund?

honestly, there's so many little things that I think are probably wrong, it might just be easier for me to restart our books altogether but do it properly
Normally, its what I would do, but I'm wondering if someone took designated funds, and invested them. If so, that opens the can of worms about moving designated funds without authorization.

What you would need to do is move those funds to the investment asset in the Operating fund, but then move funds from the checking in Operating to the Checking in Designated.

For that, I'd talk to the church board.
Neil Zampella

Using PC+ since 1999.

neac
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:26 am

Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by neac »

if I were ambitious enough to do so, how would you suggest I go about setting up a seperate fund account for the investment?

NeilZ
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:20 am
Location: Connellsville, PA
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Re: investment tracking and withdrawals

Post by NeilZ »

neac wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:17 pm
if I were ambitious enough to do so, how would you suggest I go about setting up a seperate fund account for the investment?
Follow the directions in the manual or the online help to create a new Accounting Fund. Copy the checking account, the unrestricted net assets account, the investment account, any net asset account the investment account closes to, and the transfer accounts.

Move the funds from the operating and the other accounting fund to the investment account in the new account, then make the other investment account inactive.
Neil Zampella

Using PC+ since 1999.

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