SetUp Payroll 403b Deferral for Non-Ministerial in PC v10

[mrm1]

Yes we are still using version 10
- Don't Ask ... LoL

Trying to set up a new 403b Deferral for a Non-Ministerial Employee. I used the Old v10 Knowledge Base Article for setting up the 403b deferral.
https://www.powerchurch.com/support/kb. ... =17&type=1

I created both an Expense Account for Employee 403b Deferrals AND a Liability Account for Employee 403b Deferrals as follows
- Liability account "Employee 403b Withheld" - 01-2046
- Expense account "Emp Retirement 403b" - 01-5180-008

I then set up my payroll Item Descriptions as (from the Knowledge base page)
160 = 403b Emp Inc:
- Income
- Taxable
- Debit Exp account 5180-008
- Credit Bank account 1022 (primary bank)
- for the W2 we checked boxes 3 /4 / 12 with Code E
950 = 403b withholding:
- Deduction
- No Tax
- No Tax Table
- Debit Bank Account 1022 (primary bank)
- Credit Liability Account 2046
- NO boxes checked for the W2 boxes

I understand 950 is a wash item for the 160

As I understand it, even though 403b deferrals ARE not taxable for FITW, PC Version 10 taxes FITW on the Payroll check for both Salary + 403b deferrals, BUT ... does not include the amount deferred on the Employees W2 at year end in Box 1.

So while the Employee is taxed for the deferral weekly for FITW ... They are not taxed for it on the W2 Box 1 and thus would incur a refund for the amount that was paid in too much week to week.

As far as I can tell ... this is a limitation in PowerChurch V10. PC v10 is an all or nothing for taxable income ... and will NOT allow us to separate taxable income for FITW and FICA purposes.

Ok ...
So far so good. We got all that working and it does indeed show the Employees W2 As ...
- Box 1 without 403b Deferral because it is not taxable for FITW
- Box 3 includes 403b Deferral because it is taxable here
- Box 5 includes 403b Deferral because it is taxable here
- Box 12a shows the amount Deferred and Code E

BUT ... The issue I am having ... When I print Tax Forms (W3 and W2s) in Payroll
- The Deferred amount, While it is correct on the Individual Employee W2 in Box 12 with a code E ...
- IT is NOT showing up on the W3 Transmittal
- Box 12a on the W2 has the amount deferred
- Box 12a on the W3 is blank

Why is the deferral included on the Employee W2 ... But NOT on the W3 Transmittal in PC v10? What is keeping it from being on the W3? Do I even need to show Employee Deferrals on the W3 for the IRS ? ... I would assume Yes.

[NeilZ]

Yes we are still using version 10
- Don't Ask ... LoL

Trying to set up a new 403b Deferral for a Non-Ministerial Employee. I used the Old v10 Knowledge Base Article for setting up the 403b deferral.
https://www.powerchurch.com/support/kb. ... =17&type=1

I created both an Expense Account for Employee 403b Deferrals AND a Liability Account for Employee 403b Deferrals as follows
- Liability account "Employee 403b Withheld" - 01-2046
- Expense account "Emp Retirement 403b" - 01-5180-008

I then set up my payroll Item Descriptions as (from the Knowledge base page)
160 = 403b Emp Inc:
- Income
- Taxable
- Debit Exp account 5180-008
- Credit Bank account 1022 (primary bank)
- for the W2 we checked boxes 3 /4 / 12 with Code E
950 = 403b withholding:
- Deduction
- No Tax
- No Tax Table
- Debit Bank Account 1022 (primary bank)
- Credit Liability Account 2046
- NO boxes checked for the W2 boxes

I understand 950 is a wash item for the 160

As I understand it, even though 403b deferrals ARE not taxable for FITW, PC Version 10 taxes FITW on the Payroll check for both Salary + 403b deferrals, BUT ... does not include the amount deferred on the Employees W2 at year end in Box 1.

So while the Employee is taxed for the deferral weekly for FITW ... They are not taxed for it on the W2 Box 1 and thus would incur a refund for the amount that was paid in too much week to week.

As far as I can tell ... this is a limitation in PowerChurch V10. PC v10 is an all or nothing for taxable income ... and will NOT allow us to separate taxable income for FITW and FICA purposes.

Ok ...
So far so good. We got all that working and it does indeed show the Employees W2 As ...
- Box 1 without 403b Deferral because it is not taxable for FITW
- Box 3 includes 403b Deferral because it is taxable here
- Box 5 includes 403b Deferral because it is taxable here
- Box 12a shows the amount Deferred and Code E

BUT ... The issue I am having ... When I print Tax Forms (W3 and W2s) in Payroll
- The Deferred amount, While it is correct on the Individual Employee W2 in Box 12 with a code E ...
- IT is NOT showing up on the W3 Transmittal
- Box 12a on the W2 has the amount deferred
- Box 12a on the W3 is blank

Why is the deferral included on the Employee W2 ... But NOT on the W3 Transmittal in PC v10? What is keeping it from being on the W3? Do I even need to show Employee Deferrals on the W3 for the IRS ? ... I would assume Yes.

Frankly, I don't even had a copy of v10 available anymore to give advice. I do know that v11 and higher has had updates to payroll to handle this a lot better than v10 did.

FWIW ... I sure hope that you entered the data on the W3 manually, as W2s should have been finished at the end of January.

My advise is to talk to your church board and get the update to v12. Its only $159 for the desktop version, and you will have all the updates and improvements to all the areas of the program.

[mrm1]

@NeilZ
Yes we upgraded to version 12 and tried it about 2 years ago. It was so full of bugs I literally watched financial data disappear from fields that had been posted right before my eyes in a historical data window. Power Church told me that couldn't have possibly happen and I verified it through various reports until they finally refunded me. I seriously just decided to wait and see if they got that stuff resolved, now just too old tired and gun shy to fool with it until I absolutely have to do something different

[NeilZ]

@NeilZ
Yes we upgraded to version 12 and tried it about 2 years ago. It was so full of bugs I literally watched financial data disappear from fields that had been posted right before my eyes in a historical data window. Power Church told me that couldn't have possibly happen and I verified it through various reports until they finally refunded me. I seriously just decided to wait and see if they got that stuff resolved, now just too old tired and gun shy to fool with it until I absolutely have to do something different

I'm guessing that there was an issue with your database when it tried to convert it to the latest database schema. I would try again, but this time ask Powerchurch if they could do the conversion for you, reminding them of the issue you had back then.

When you say you're on v10, is that 10.5 or something else? I've converted a few systems from previous versions and did not have that type of data loss that you describe. Of course, this is the reason Powerchurch always installs to a new directory, and just copies the database, just in case there's an issue.

[Zorak]

Regarding the 403B setup, there is a Knowledge Base article specifically for old versions of PowerChurch (prior to the Version 11 Payroll redesign in 2009):

https://www.powerchurch.com/support/19/ ... plus-v6-10

And in reference to the financial data disappearing before your eyes, since this is a public forum and the post will be visible forever, I feel it's appropriate to say we have nearly 14,000 churches and organizations using Versions 12 and higher of PowerChurch Plus. Your experience is not typical.

Normally, in a situation where there is data corruption or something bad happening in the database, there would be a ton of errors, not just transactions disappearing or account balances changing on their own. Data corruption aside, there should be a chain of events that can be forensically tracked down. PowerChurch has always kept a very strong audit trail, but I can say as time goes on that we are continuously adding more audit logs and more detailed reporting in the software to help solve these one-off mystery scenarios when they are reported.

[mrm1]

Regarding the 403B setup, there is a Knowledge Base article specifically for old versions of PowerChurch (prior to the Version 11 Payroll redesign in 2009):

https://www.powerchurch.com/support/19/ ... plus-v6-10

@NeilZ
Yes v10.5

And Thx I used that knowledge base and linked it above.

But my question is ... The issue I am having ... When I print Tax Forms (W3 and W2s) from Payroll
- The Deferred amount, While it is correct on the Individual Employee W2 in Box 12 with a code E ...
- IT is NOT showing up on the W3 Transmittal
- Box 12a on the W2 has the amount deferred
- Box 12a on the W3 is blank

Why is the deferral included on the Employee W2 ... But NOT on the W3 Transmittal in PC v10? What is keeping it from being on the W3?

[NeilZ]

Regarding the 403B setup, there is a Knowledge Base article specifically for old versions of PowerChurch (prior to the Version 11 Payroll redesign in 2009):

https://www.powerchurch.com/support/19/ ... plus-v6-10

@NeilZ
Yes v10.5

And Thx I used that knowledge base and linked it above.

But my question is ... The issue I am having ... When I print Tax Forms (W3 and W2s) from Payroll
- The Deferred amount, While it is correct on the Individual Employee W2 in Box 12 with a code E ...
- IT is NOT showing up on the W3 Transmittal
- Box 12a on the W2 has the amount deferred
- Box 12a on the W3 is blank

Why is the deferral included on the Employee W2 ... But NOT on the W3 Transmittal in PC v10? What is keeping it from being on the W3?

My guess, v10.5 has not had a form update (nor any maintenance releases) since 2012 ... I'm surprised that the W-2s are still printing as the form has changed a bit. There have been a bunch of income tax changes since then.