User Support Forum

Hello Everone,
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We have changed how we input contributions since we moved to PC+ in Aug '04. We have V9. Formerly we used membership plus as our contribution software. The secretary entered all of the data.

Because we were not using an intergrated system, the treasurer would reconcile what the secretary intered with what the trustees had recorded on the "sheet". The "sheet" is a summary of all totals collected from various, members general fund & building fund envelopes, sunday schol, choirs, etc. The funds recorded on the sheet were balanced with the money deposited into the bank.

Now, we have the trustees to enter all of the contributions into PC+ v9. It is needlessly slow. We would really like to see, perhaps through a MR, a slight enhancement to PC+.

It would really assist fast data entry if the system did not have to be physically informed if the data was a check or cash. Currently, one of the trustees write the check numbers on the contribution envelopes. (All of our contributions are put into envelopes) , & the envelopes are the input document. The empty envelopes are given to a fast data entry person for input.

I invision that the system could "check" if the check number field was filled. If there was a number in the check number field, then the system would know that a check was entered & handle it accordingly. If it was blank then it should know that cash was entered. This way, a fast inputter would not loose his raythim having to select cash or check.

If need be , this new feature could be turned on or off at "user preference" or something.

Thanks,
Tom

Our depositor has a sheet that she gives to me with our contributions given by checks and listed in alphabetical order with the amount given. Any specials given by check are grouped together at the bottom with contributors name, amount and designated fund. She has a total for the checks and the difference is cash. She also gives me the deposit slip and any envelopes given by the contributors. I start out by entering the contributions given by checks for our general fund. I do not record a check number though. All I have to enter is person, amount and fund. It goes pretty quickly. After I enter for the general fund then I go to the next fund. Once I enter all the contributions given by checks I enter the ones for cash and then post the difference to our Misc person.

We basically do the same thing.

We have two people assigned each Sunday to perform the counts. These are two unrelated persons, who have been members of the church for at least 2 years, and have a record of giving.

One person works the computer, the other organizes the contributions. All the loose checks are first removed, and handed to the computer operator, who runs them through the check reader. In the meantime, the second person is separating the loose bills into denominations for a loose cash count.

Once the loose checks are entered, the second person opens envelopes. If they contain cash, they are put aside until all the checks are entered. Once that is done, the computer person can then change over to cash, and the entry continues. Finally, the computer operator does a verification recount of the loose cash to confirm the total, and then that is added as "Lucy Cash Offerings', which is its own envelope.

We were able to do Easter Sunday's offering (which included extra loose cash from over 400 C&Es) in about an hour.

What I would do is skip the writing on the envelope, and just read them off. If you really want to record the check number, I'd get a check reader, and then funnel everything through the reader, then the number is recorded automatically.

We don't record the check number, as we find it really isn't necessary.

Thanks Neil And All,

You have given me much to consider. I am not sure just what I will recommend to the Chairmen of the Trustees. He asked me on Easter Sunday to prepare some recomendations for our 04/11/2005 Trustee meeting. I know that he favors having our full-time secretary to re-take the task of entering the contributions. (I don't like that method). It is taking the trustees an additional hour & about 15 minutes to do it with PC+ V9. ( It is not the fault of PC+).

We did not computerize our financial data until 1999, although the secratary has been using Membership plus since about 1996. We have had a long history of doing things manually, & change is somewhat painful. We just have not yet found the best procedure, yet for using PC+.

I really wish other PC+ members would give me tips or tell me how you handle contributions, so that I can be prepared for our next Trustee meeting.

Thanks again,
Tom

If you are not using PC+ to generate your deposit slip it really doesn't matter whether you enter the contribution as a check or cash. We do not use PC+ to give us a deposit slip since in our count verification we end up with a calculator tape with the total of all checks and the number of checks being deposited. We just put the number of checks being deposited and the total amount on the deposit slip and submit the calculator tape with the deposit. However if you have decided you need to enter the check numbers into PC+ the above procedure may not be workable for you.

tborgal wrote:If you are not using PC+ to generate your deposit slip it really doesn't matter whether you enter the contribution as a check or cash. We do not use PC+ to give us a deposit slip since in our count verification we end up with a calculator tape with the total of all checks and the number of checks being deposited. We just put the number of checks being deposited and the total amount on the deposit slip and submit the calculator tape with the deposit. However if you have decided you need to enter the check numbers into PC+ the above procedure may not be workable for you.

What I like about haveing PC+ generate the deposit slip, is that it lists the names and the checks. This has helped a number of times when there was an incorrect entry (a check entered as cash, or vice versa). Then we just rap the checks up in the slip, and send it, along with a normal deposit slip, on to the bank.

Hellow Everyone,

I thought that I might update you as to how we have progressed. Although most reply posts to my eariler post sugessed that recording check # s was a waste of time, we find it very helpful for audit trail. If a check bounces we can trace it to thecontribution fund that it was posted to. If a member should question how much he has given, we can compare his check register with PC+ records.

Each inputer writes member's check # in red oin the bottom right side of member's envelopes.

The only thing that we still need is a fund contribution report by operator. I may call PC to get a price for a custom report.

What happens to custom reports when there is an upgrade or MR?

Tom
2nd Baptist Church of Ypsilanti

SBCTrustee wrote:Hellow Everyone,

I thought that I might update you as to how we have progressed. Although most reply posts to my eariler post sugessed that recording check # s was a waste of time, we find it very helpful for audit trail. If a check bounces we can trace it to thecontribution fund that it was posted to. If a member should question how much he has given, we can compare his check register with PC+ records.

Each inputer writes member's check # in red oin the bottom right side of member's envelopes.

The only thing that we still need is a fund contribution report by operator. I may call PC to get a price for a custom report.

What happens to custom reports when there is an upgrade or MR?

Tom
2nd Baptist Church of Ypsilanti

The custom reports usually work fine after the upgrade, if there are changes where they need to be adjusted, the staff is pretty good at including that in the update notes.

As far as the fund report by operator, I take it the unposted contributions report that lists who did the entry doesn't cut it ?

Thanks Neil,

I don't see a limitation of PC+ v.9's unposted funds report. Our basic problem has to do with the way we count money.
There are as many as 8 Trustees counting on Sunday in our computer lab. Each trustee randomly opens envelopes designated to over 100 different contrbution funds on any given Sunday. Tapes are run on the envelopes, & the envelopes (contrbution funds) are match to the money. Next the envelope amounts are entered into PC+ by the trustee. Curently each trustees' input is compared to the total on the tapes that the trustee had made.

Problems occur when we are trying to determine where the error occured. (Notice that I am speaking about what contrbution fund is posted incorrectly not who made the error, since anyone of eight trustees could be posting to any one of the 100 contribution funds metioned earlier).

Thus, a lot of time is spent trying to determine if there was an input error & how to correct it.

I believe that if I had an unposted fund report by operator, our process would be better.

Tom
2nd Baptist Church of Ypsilanti

When you select to print the unposted contribution report, one of the sort options is "Entered By". Would this be sufficient, since all the inputs by a certain login would be grouped together, or do you also need a second level of sorting, like by the fund number, with a subtotal included before the fund number changes to the next fund, in order to help you find the errors? This might be able to be done in custom reports, if one of the fields available in custom reports is the entered by or login field. I just checked, and there is a User field available under contributions, unposted contributions, custom reports output fields so it seems it could be done. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you ar looking for.

Actually, adding a sort option on the standard unposted contributions report to sort by fund should work.

Lincoinda & Neil,

You are both correct in describing our needs. Currently, I have to run an additing mechine tape on the funds report to determine the total entered for each of the possible 100 contribution funds by each operator.

Probably a custom report is the only way to go. I just wanted to be sure that a MR or upgrade would not "break" my custom report, if we go that way.
Thanks!!!

Tom

SBCTrustee wrote:I really wish other PC+ members would give me tips or tell me how you handle contributions, so that I can be prepared for our next Trustee meeting.

Thanks again,
Tom

Tom,

I'm arriving late in this discussion, but I'll be glad to make some comments!

Like Neil, we use a two-person team with one on the computer (that has a check reader) and the other working the cash contributions. We have found that after a fairly steep learning curve, our contributions entry has become more accurate and a bit less time consuming.

Prior to getting the check reader, we did everything on tally sheets. It was prone to error in a number of ways. After the finance team counted, the secretary would verify the deposit report and then enter the data into PC+. This used to take her hours.

Now, the finance team does all of the data entry (except credit card contributions) and runs all the reports. As part of their check list, they reverse positions and verify every entry on the report. What is a bit of overkill (but has saved our sanity) is that we manually copy the checks. So, if a check contribution contains an error, we can go to the check for verification. This would arise when no envelope was received. Lastly, the church secretary still verifies the deposit report and then posts it.

Hope this was useful,
Jeff

Tom,
I enter my contributions similiar to the others. After attending a PowerChurch seminar. I had my counters implement some of the changes they suggested. It does take us an hour longer, but in the end it is worth it. Yes, the counters were resistant at first, but now appreciate the system we use.

One counter sorts the checks and files them alphabetically. The other counter counts the money and fills in the amount on a tally sheet along with the total contributions of the checks. I custom made the sheet for us based on one someone gave me at the seminar.

They may not leave to deposit the money until I enter all the information into PowerChurch and my PowerChurch deposit slip matches the tally sheet. If it doesn't match we all check figures together: one counter looks at the checks, one checks of the tape she ran of the checks and I check off the amounts listed on the PowerChurch Deposit slip. If your checks are kept in order, eveyone can look at their list and see who isn't matching as the checks are read off. It's really fast.

We no longer write all the information from the checks onto the offering envelope. I have let the congregation know that is their responsibility. If they don't record it, they need to keep their returned checks.

I do enter the check numbers, it comes in useful...even if I do only need to verify a few numbers during the year.

I enter all my checks into PowerChurch first (I have a copy of my envelope numbers list that was run alphabetically. I read the name from the envelope and find their number on the list. After a while you find them faster.) and then run the Unposted Contributions Report. This will match the contributions entered on the tally sheet. Then I enter all the cash and re-run the report.

After having to deal with so many funds and being the bookkeeper. I prefer being the one who enters the information...creating new contribution numbers as I need them...new memorials...what funds they should be deposited to...as I read the notes on the checks. If there is an error, it's mine and I know where to look.

We have a membership of 400. It takes us from 8-12 every Monday. I now have everything done in 1/2 a day. Before, when the money was deposited without being verified by me using PowerChurch and the offering envelopes were given to me to enter by, we constantly had small discrepencies that took me days to try to figure out before I could even get to my bookkeeping work.

If you can ever attend a seminar, I suggest you do so.
Kristi
Lea Joyner UMC

FWIW ... it takes our counters about 1 to 2 hours on Sunday after the final service to do the counting. We do not do any manual tallys outside of cash totals, preferring to let the system do the work as it was designed to.

The counters first separate the cash,envelopes and loose checks, while the loose checks are being entered using a check reader, the other counter is busy counting the loose plate cash. The counter is empowered to create a family and personal record, as well as a new envelope number, but outside the normal member series of numbers, currently from 101 to 999.

If the visitor becomes a member, they are then given an envelope set by our Financial Secretary, who handles all the pledges and contributions statments. BTW ... she is an Elder who has previously served on our Session, and is affirmed in the position by the current Session.

As the first counter finishes the loose checks, the second opens the envelope flaps to sort out the cash envelopes from those containing checks. The second counter is verifying the loose cash count, by recounting all the loose plate cash.

Then the envelopes are entered, with the one counter reading off the number, and the other doing data entry, first checks, then the cash envelopes, the amount is entered on the envelope if not already listed. The loose plate offerings are then entered to the loose plate envelope number.

A Bank Deposit Slip report is run for display, and the checks are then read off by one counter, and verified against that report in the order in which they were entered. Then the all the cash is recounted to include the cash received via the envelopes. This count is verified against the bank deposit slip.

Any descrepancies in the cash count are verified against the envelopes and the loose cash count/recount. The check entries are adjusted, if necessary, as they are read off, and another Bank Deposit slip report run to verify the changes.

Once the entries have been confirmed, the Bank Deposit slip is printed, and a Funds Report run for our Treasurer. Any designated gifts are annotated on a separate slip, and attached to the funds report, as is the deposit slip.

We have over 400 'giving' households (members) with an average of 200 member entries, and 30 to 40 non-member recurring contributions weekly; along with loose cash.

We have four teams of counters, of separate member households, each one having been a member for at least 2 years. Our teams include the Financial Secretary, our current Stewardship Elder, a former Stewardship Elder, former deacons, and a 'regular' member.

Once this is all done, the deposit is dropped in the night deposit vault at our bank.