1 Envelope Number, Same address, 2 Families

[faithalive]

We have 2 families in the church - one is a set of elderly parents, the other is their daughter and her family. The daughter and family have recently moved in with the elderly parents to care for them. For the membership module we have the 2 families separated, with the same address, because we want them to appear on the Church Directory list as 2 separate entries, particularly since the last names are different. Both families have given to the church in the past years so they each have their own envelope number. Now... the daughter and family would like - for taxes purposes - for theirs and her parents contributions to appear on the same report. They have a joint checking account with the mother and daughter's name both listed on the check so that either of them can sign the check. I would like for the report to list both families names but since PC+ won't let me assign 1 envelope # to two different families I'm not sure how to produce the information they are wanting and still preserve our Church Directory info by keeping them 2 separate families. If I list all contributions under 1 of the envelope numbers then both names are not going to be listed on the report.

I even tried to add an additional personal profile under the elderly parents profile (like a "dummy listing" since I don't want to move profiles around and mess up the Church Directory part), listing the daughter as Dir. Seq. 3 but I guess since she has a different last name, the Contribution Report now lists the husband's name "and family" added instead of husband and wife then daughter's name. When I remove the daughter's "dummy profile", the report lists husband and wife's name like it's suppose to.

Is there any way to do this?

[NeilZ]

Frankly no, and if she's trying to do this tax purposes she had better talk to a tax attorney because in effect she's saying that her parents are now her dependents, or vice versa.

If she's making contributions out of her mothers checking account for the church, I do not believe that she can claim deductions on her and her husband's income taxes.

If she is claiming her parents as dependents, then I would assign only one number to the daughter if she is not giving a separate check from her funds.

If they are both giving, then give each a number, and then if she's actually claiming the parents as dependents, she can use the Contribution Statement they get under her taxes.

In any case, I would not do anything on the church side of the house as this could open the church up to problems of false reporting. I'd definitely check with the church's tax advisor, if it has one, or someone who is knowledgeable about federal income taxes.

[faithalive]

Neil - from what I understand is... they are wanting all contributions the daughter and the mother gives to be on the same report and the mother will use the report to file her taxes (not the daughter). Here is a history of the types of contributions we received from them last year:

~ Check written by mother on her account
~ Check written by mother/daughter on their account
~ Check written by daughter on her account
~ Cash contributions with daughter and mother both listed on the offering envelope (I especially don't know what to do about this one!)

All of these types of contributions, they are wanting to appear on the same report for the mother to file. I don't know if that makes any difference tax wise and I'll check with a tax advisor about that. Apparently though, in talking about PC+, this cannot (and should not) be done.

[Eden Whitehead]

...
~ Cash contributions with daughter and mother both listed on the offering envelope (I especially don't know what to do about this one!)

I have this same situation. I settled on assigning 2 different envelope numbers (since PC+ doesn't allow otherwise) and when cash is given in an envelope with both names, I divide the amount in half and credit mother with 50% and the daughter with 50%.

If memory serves me (it's been quite a while now), I phoned and asked how they wanted it handled and that was their preference.

Their circumstances are such that the level of their giving has no bearing on their tax returns.

Neil, I appreciate your knowledge of IRS requirements. You often bring something to my attention that saves my making a(nother) mistake!

Eden

[NeilZ]

Neil - from what I understand is... they are wanting all contributions the daughter and the mother gives to be on the same report and the mother will use the report to file her taxes (not the daughter). Here is a history of the types of contributions we received from them last year:

~ Check written by mother on her account
~ Check written by mother/daughter on their account
~ Check written by daughter on her account
~ Cash contributions with daughter and mother both listed on the offering envelope (I especially don't know what to do about this one!)

All of these types of contributions, they are wanting to appear on the same report for the mother to file. I don't know if that makes any difference tax wise and I'll check with a tax advisor about that. Apparently though, in talking about PC+, this cannot (and should not) be done.

I'm fairly sure that the mother cannot claim any deduction on funds given from her daughter's family account unless the mom can claim the entire family as dependents. In any case, the church should not be getting in the middle of this one.

[NeilZ]

Neil, I appreciate your knowledge of IRS requirements. You often bring something to my attention that saves my making a(nother) mistake!

Eden

What little I know is because I've had to do the research for three different churches over the past 13 years

[faithalive]

Eden - Thank you for your thoughts on the matter. I was kind of thinking the same thing as far as the cash contributions so that makes sense.

Neil - THANK YOU so much for your wisdom in this situation. Your explanation really helps clear up this matter for me. I didn't think it sounded right when they approached me about it. I just couldn't put my figure on why. It makes total sense now.

Ruth

[faithalive]

Just an update on this situation.... this issue has resolved! Thank God! And thank you Neil for bringing those points to my attention. As a result, I talked to the family today about what I can and cannot do and found out that the family member who originally talked to me about this misunderstood and gave me wrong information about all of this! Now I have a clear conscience knowing that all contributions are being accounted for properly and everyone is on the same page. Even though I knew something wasn't right about all of that, I'm not sure when I would have gotten the clue about the legalities. My thread was about a program issue and then I realized that wasn't actually my problem! Thank you again Neil for your wisdom!

Ruth

[NeilZ]

You're welcome