Resequencing Envelope Numbers

[jeffkoke]

Can anyone suggest an automated/semi-automated method that can be used to re-sequence envelope numbers?

We've added a lot of new contributors and of course had some to leave the area. So, I need to re-assign new envelope numbers to all of the current folks. I've already figured out what numbering scheme I want to use and have ordered pre-printed envelopes.

I have plenty of time to do this as the new envelope packages will not be distributed until the end of December.

Ideas?

AdvanceThanks,
Jeff

[NeilZ]

Can anyone suggest an automated/semi-automated method that can be used to re-sequence envelope numbers?


We've added a lot of new contributors and of course had some to leave the area. So, I need to re-assign new envelope numbers to all of the current folks. I've already figured out what numbering scheme I want to use and have ordered pre-printed envelopes.

I have plenty of time to do this as the new envelope packages will not be distributed until the end of December.

Ideas?

AdvanceThanks,
Jeff

I wish there was !!

Actually, this would be a nice addition to the wishlist for a future version. We renumbered last year, and don't plan to to it again until we start our new building fund drive next year. We do clear out transfers around March of the following year once we send out end of year startements, so we reuse the numbers.

As I see it, the requirement could be:

1. Something that would allow us to renumber alphabetically

2. Filter by personal profile and/or current envelope numbers (we segregate members to numbers under 1000), non-members to 1000 - 1999, and transferred or unknown addressee members to 2000 - 2999

3. Entering a Starting number

4. Entering the last used envelope number (could be done internally by the program)

Whatever does the process would have to be a module that takes all the accounts in the range requested, renumbers them to something outside the last used number, then renumbers then to the final number starting with the first envelope number as entered.

RIght now, this shadows what the manual process is. I suspect that there's a faster method.

[jeffkoke]

This might be in the "too hard box," but I'd like to:
- Select a starting thru ending envelope number range for existing contributors (basically tag the profiles)
- Select/tag the personal profile of those to add to the resequence (such as contributors who were outside of the env number range)
- Ensure that the spouse's envelope number is also chosen (that has the same/matching envelope number)
- Be able to review the set of profiles before the resequence (untag/retag)
- Choose a starting envelope number for the beginning of the resequence event
- Have the numbers propagate lastname alphabetically low to high (A->Z)
- Let you preview the "proposed" change
- Allow you to untag (and re-tag) profiles to add/delete more people, if necessary
- Do another resequence, if needed
- Select "Approve Change" or "Cancel"

Whew! I'm tired...

Jeff (I don't want much)

[Jeff]

We have debated this topic of automatically renumbering contributors internally for a while. There are a couple of snags that make the process difficult.

First is the switchover time. Most people want to switch to a new number on January 1. You would most likely want to setup the new envelope numbers to switch to and have sometime to review them and then one day flip the switch and roll over to the new numbers. That is fine and their is no problem with that. The problem is some churches have their envelopes printed for them and mailed directly to the member's home. And PowerChurch has exports that these churches send to the company that does this for them. These files need to be sent to the company at least a month ahead of time. So in late November they are preparing the file for the first quarters envelopes. So the exports would have to ask what envelope number to include, the current one or the newly assigned number. This complicates the user interface, complicates the code to prepare the file, you get the idea.

Experience tells us that people will start entering January contributions while they still want to fix the prior year's contributions. It really confuses the entry because people will not want to roll over to the new numbers until they have finished with the prior years entry, but they will still want to enter in new contributions using the new numbers. So you would end up trying to have some mechanism to let people lookup both numbers. (enter contributions using the new number and the old number at the same time)

Also if you were able to switch on January 1, contribution statements printed after that would have the new number listed. So the 2004 contribution statement would show your 2005 envelope number. Just seems a little wierd. (This just might be me picky though.)

I am curious on your thoughts on what a clean way would be to overcome these issues.

[NeilZ]

We have debated this topic of automatically renumbering contributors internally for a while. There are a couple of snags that make the process difficult.

First is the switchover time. Most people want to switch to a new number on January 1. You would most likely want to setup the new envelope numbers to switch to and have sometime to review them and then one day flip the switch and roll over to the new numbers. That is fine and their is no problem with that. The problem is some churches have their envelopes printed for them and mailed directly to the member's home. And PowerChurch has exports that these churches send to the company that does this for them. These files need to be sent to the company at least a month ahead of time. So in late November they are preparing the file for the first quarters envelopes. So the exports would have to ask what envelope number to include, the current one or the newly assigned number. This complicates the user interface, complicates the code to prepare the file, you get the idea.

Yeah, I see your point. However, this is something that you can let the individual churches decide upon. You could put up an informational dialogue that lists the issues, or just point to a webpage with the pros and cons.

Experience tells us that people will start entering January contributions while they still want to fix the prior year's contributions. It really confuses the entry because people will not want to roll over to the new numbers until they have finished with the prior years entry, but they will still want to enter in new contributions using the new numbers. So you would end up trying to have some mechanism to let people lookup both numbers. (enter contributions using the new number and the old number at the same time)

We have a fairly good deadline on when we cut off prior year contributions. Its usually the first Sunday of the new year. If they have not given for 2004 by that time, it goes in 2005. We look at it from a strict IRS perspective, to be credited for 2004, it should be given in 2004. In any case, our envelope company prints the numbers in alternate colors for alternate years. IE: 2004 has red numbers, 2005 will be blue. We alert our counters at the new year to verify the color of the envelope number. In January 2005, if the color is red, they will look up the name on the list of envelope numbers printed off prior to the renumbering, then enter the contribution under the name rather than the number.

Also if you were able to switch on January 1, contribution statements printed after that would have the new number listed. So the 2004 contribution statement would show your 2005 envelope number. Just seems a little wierd. (This just might be me picky though.)

I am curious on your thoughts on what a clean way would be to overcome these issues.

This is really not an issue, as most people don't realize what their number is anyway half the time. I've got one guy who sends in his contribution via his bank, his number has changed twice over the years, but the check still shows his 2000 number. Obviously, we don't go by the number for that contributor.

As long as the contributions follow to the new number, we're happy !!!

[jeffkoke]

And PowerChurch has exports that these churches send to the company that does this for them. These files need to be sent to the company at least a month ahead of time.

This is what drove my request. Initially, I used the export function only to find that:
1. Not everone within the range is still attending (we live in a military transient area and folks come and go every couple of years)
2. People who have left the area and then returned still have an envelope number, but it is not within the current range.
3. Some entities (like other churches/organizations have envelope numbers within the range who do not need preprinted envelope number (they give to our missions work, for instance)
4. There is no easy way to modify the output file (although that is what I did and it took five hours of work).

Experience tells us that people will start entering January contributions while they still want to fix the prior year's contributions. It really confuses the entry because people will not want to roll over to the new numbers until they have finished with the prior years entry, but they will still want to enter in new contributions using the new numbers. So you would end up trying to have some mechanism to let people lookup both numbers. (enter contributions using the new number and the old number at the same time)

As Neil has said, midnight December 31st is the cut off date. It is not unusual for us to make a deposit for that date, but after that date it is the next year. We adhere to the IRS rules for calendar year contributions.

The prior year's contributions are exactly that and when we run the contribution report, we specify 01JAN through 31DEC and funds 1 through 495. Higher numbered funds are non-contributional. So, the envelope number doesn't really matter as long as the dollar amounts are correct for the contributor.

Our finance committee has been trained to review the envelope number and name on the envelope with the data on the entry panel. There are times when weird things happen with check entries (like someone signing over a church check back to the church). So, we're quite vigilant.

Also if you were able to switch on January 1, contribution statements printed after that would have the new number listed. So the 2004 contribution statement would show your 2005 envelope number. Just seems a little wierd. (This just might be me picky though.)

I am curious on your thoughts on what a clean way would be to overcome these issues.

The switch over function would be a nice feature, but as I indicated above I think everyone could just approve the change and go with it.

Thanks for identifying the issues and asking for responses. Perhaps others will chime in as well.

[Jeff]

Experience tells us that people will start entering January contributions while they still want to fix the prior year's contributions.

I might not have been clear about this, but what I meant was not that they were continuing receive contributions, but they have not finished entering contributions received in the prior year. It is not that uncommon to find that someone is over a month behind entering contributions.

[jeffkoke]

I might not have been clear about this, but what I meant was not that they were continuing receive contributions, but they have not finished entering contributions received in the prior year. It is not that uncommon to find that someone is over a month behind entering contributions.

Aha! Yes, that makes sense.

In our case, the contributions are entered/posted no later than one week from receipt. Although the bank deposit is made much sooner.

Jeff

[NeilZ]

Experience tells us that people will start entering January contributions while they still want to fix the prior year's contributions.

I might not have been clear about this, but what I meant was not that they were continuing receive contributions, but they have not finished entering contributions received in the prior year. It is not that uncommon to find that someone is over a month behind entering contributions.

Certainly not in this congregation

All contributions are entered into the system either on Sunday, or the day following a service when offerings were taken with two unrelated counters in attendance. The actual deposit is done on the same day via overnight deposit safe at the bank.

[gwbowers]

I've seen something like this to help.
Either an 'effective date', or another field in the database record.
For instance, main key = envelope 1; Also known as key(snyonym) is 10001;

during the program lookup of envelopes, it searches for the Primary key (1), if not found, it searches for the synonym (10001).

That way, you can 'bridge the gap'.
You also want simple tools to say "set synonym key from primary key (replace values, or set only if synonym is blank/zero/unassigned).

Your reports should be able to be run either way, or use custom reports.


Just a thought.

Same applies for changing Fund numbers around for the new year as well.

Others may have more elegant techniques, but this works for the situation most churches seem to be in (pretty prompt in keeping data updated).

[RedBaron2]

Hi Jeff,
I have a somewhat solution to the contining entry of last year and current year contributions which might be your solution too. Make the contributions module use different databases. This selection of databases can be selected via the Sytem Admin Setup Pages. The entry person could then select to use the current year or the previous year(s). Since most churches must keep records of finaces seven years in some states. Having a database inside the program would be back-up friendly too. This would help my church greatly because we change everyone's envelope numbers every year. Some will get the same number for 2 years in a row, but this is even fixed by skipping a few numbers at the beginning. Hope this option for re-sequencing envelope numbers will be incorporated into PC+ which is a great program.
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Red Baron2

[NeilZ]

Hi Jeff,
I have a somewhat solution to the contining entry of last year and current year contributions which might be your solution too. Make the contributions module use different databases. This selection of databases can be selected via the Sytem Admin Setup Pages. The entry person could then select to use the current year or the previous year(s). Since most churches must keep records of finaces seven years in some states. Having a database inside the program would be back-up friendly too. This would help my church greatly because we change everyone's envelope numbers every year. Some will get the same number for 2 years in a row, but this is even fixed by skipping a few numbers at the beginning. Hope this option for re-sequencing envelope numbers will be incorporated into PC+ which is a great program.
--
Red Baron2

I'm not too sure that allowing someone access to the System Admin area is a good idea. If someone changes the database location in the program, and another person does not check the location, the wrong database could be updated.

Besides, the System Admin access controls every area of the program, and has access to all the data. But whatever works for you !!

[RedBaron2]

... This selection of databases can be selected via the Sytem Admin Setup Pages. ...
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Red Baron2

It would seem I didn't make myself clear enough again. The System Admin could select to have this "feature" enabled/disabled also they could be the one to select on how many years if more than just current and previous years are needed. I will do some more reading into v9 about its multi-database function. Maybe this could be worked into a MR for v9? Wishlist addition for easy re-sequencing of envelope numbers. Thanks for reading.
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Red Baron2