expense account number on check stub?

[lmschuelke]

Is there a way to add the expense account number to the custom check printout--bottom part of the stub. Our bookkeeper would like that info if possible. Thanks

[Dish-Man]

a broader question: where is it documented the names of all the fields in PowerChurch? I would like to add several items to our 3 part laser checks on the middle and bottom stub. It would be a great help to someone looking through the paper files in our file cabinet without having to go into PowerChurch to see what expense account the check came from. I thought this was in the book, but I can't find it.

It could also be used as a training tool as the new trainee would have a "picture" of how the check was written in PowerChurch if more data were printed on the check stub. We currently give the payee the check and middle stub (employees like it because it has all their deductions on it) and keep the bottom stub and attach it to any invoices, timecards, bills, etc.

[Dish-Man]

Tech support just told me that you CANNOT add fields to a custom check format. I am MOST disappointed. Thought I had a way of making the check stubs more readable, but I guess NOT. They told me that you can delete fields or move fields around, but NOT add fields.

[Dish-Man]

bump this topic.

this came up again this past month. Our bookkeeper has begun writing the account number on the check stub MANUALLY. Some from tech support PLEASE tell me this is "do-able", and not impossible (I mean in a new release)!! I just don't see why this is not something that couldn't be done and it makes perfect sense to my as to WHY it needs to be done. Normally, we have requisitions attached to any check, but when one gets separated, the person that signs our checks doesn't know what account the check is written out of.

[NeilZ]

bump this topic.

this came up again this past month. Our bookkeeper has begun writing the account number on the check stub MANUALLY. Some from tech support PLEASE tell me this is "do-able", and not impossible (I mean in a new release)!! I just don't see why this is not something that couldn't be done and it makes perfect sense to my as to WHY it needs to be done. Normally, we have requisitions attached to any check, but when one gets separated, the person that signs our checks doesn't know what account the check is written out of.

Have you sent this request to the wishlist for inclusion in any update or new release ??

[tborgal]

This would be a good idea if you could only write a check from one account, but we very often write checks to one vendor from several accounts - example our credit cards. How would that be handled?

[Dish-Man]

Neil, yes I have asked for it in a wishlist.

lms, it seems to me it would work just like the software does in payroll in which multiple deductions are listed with amounts of each deduction. It doesn't say which account NUMBER the deductions goes into, but that should be easy enough to do. I just can't see why it would be so much different from the way a payroll check looks. In my opinion, this would be tremendously helpful and ALL users of Invoices should want this.

[Cherokee]

I agree. This information should definately be there. I am surprised to find out it isn't. I am just now setting up my accounting in Power Church and need to have the information on the check stub. I will contact the Powers-that-Be and make a request.

[Jeff]

Help me understand why you want this information on the stub? We get this request fairly often but to us it does not make sense. One check can pay several invoices from a vendor. How would the distribution be printed for checks that pay more than one invoice?

For example, I know some churches that as they buy things on the credit card go ahead and enter each item purchased as a separate invoice and when the credit card statement comes in they change the pay now to yes for those items on the statement. They can easily have 10 or more invoices paid on one check.

The original thought behind the check layout is that one stub is sent to the vendor so they know what invoices you are paying. The other part is attached to your copy of the invoices and filed so you have a paper record of what check paid that invoice. I know that is what our accounts payable does.

Some have said they need this so a volunteer knows what they are being reimbursed for. It seems to me they would know more by a well worded reference for the invoices than an account number from your internal chart of accounts.

If some one can provide a really good reasons why they need account distribution on the stub, I will heavily consider it for version 10. We have considered this option before and we have not come up with a good reason for it.

[Dish-Man]

we would use it so the Disbursing officer who signs the checks can ensure that the money was taken out of the proper account that matches the requisition that is attached to the check. Sometimes we don't yet HAVE a requisition and the folks that sign the checks have no idea what account the money is coming from unless we generate a report from PowerChurch that has the transaction details on it. (a waste of paper). I can see your point of having "too many" references on the check, but you could limit it to the first five, the largest amount to the smallest, etc. Also, once the top third of the page (the actual check) is torn off, the rest is either attached to the requisition or filed in the folder that contains all checks written from that expense account (we have over 50 expense accounts at our church). It would be nice if the account number were printed on the stub just in case it gets separated from the requisition/bill/invoice. To me it seems like just opening up the bottom two stubs for the ability to ADD fields would be all PC would need to do and then the users could decide which fields they want on the stub whether it be the account number, account name, etc. There is enough room if you have a blank stub to put 2 different columns of numbers on it, so I don't think 10 would be a problem. 20, maybe. This will also allow us to make copies of the check stub with multiple accounts listed and put a copy of the check stub in EACH folder that has an account paid for by the check. Like in your credit card example, we have individual requisitions for each transaction, but one check that pays the bill. We make multiple copies of the check stub and file EACH requisition with a copy of the check in the proper expense folder in our file cabinet, but the check stub only shows the total amount paid. 6 months later (or a year later) we would not have a quick way of auditing the folder to ensure the amount on the requisition was paid to the proper account.

This may not sound like a big deal to the developers, but it doesn't sound like a big deal to us users to be able to ADD fields to the check stub. My question to you guys would be is there something that we are not understanding that is difficult about allowing this feature? If it's too complicated, I understand not doing it if it's not going to be used by the masses, but if it's simple to program, why not do it even if it benefits only a a percentage of the user base? All I'm asking for is to let US change the format of the check stub and suffer the consequences if we mess it up, not for PowerChurch to add a bunch of stuff to the stub.

[Jeff]

It is not really that simple to add fields to the check stub. There is only one common check printing routine in the program that prints checks from the 3 different places in the program a check can be printed. (2 in Payroll, 1 in Accounts Payable)

How check printing works is that a temporary cursor is created with just in the information needed to be printed on the check. An internal processing key is assigned to each check to be printed depending on which process initiated the check. You can't get back to the detail cursors because the linking records haven't been added to the tables yet. We don't add the linking records until the procesing is complete. This is done so you have the option to cancel out of the check printing process.

General flow is this; routine that needs to print check generates a cursor of checks to print, it then calls a common check printig routine. The common routine prints checks, assigning the check numbers and dates to each check. If the check printing routine returns true, we know checks were printed. The original routine then loops through the cursor of checks and then finishes processing them as needed in that module. ie. in AP computer check records are added in ApCheck, in PR transactions are posted to FaTrans and information added to PrPaid.

Another problem is trying to deal with a child table that can only be printed in a limited space. ie you have an unknown number of transaction lines that can only be printed in 3 1/2 inches of vertical space. Keep in mind that each transaction line is a separate record in a detail table. There is not just one field to add to the layout but you want multiple transaction lines to print for each check. and then if the transacation was to take more room than the allotted 3 1/2 inches you have to have some way of not printing the rest of the transaction.

Also, once the top third of the page (the actual check) is torn off, the rest is either attached to the requisition or filed in the folder that contains all checks written from that expense account (we have over 50 expense accounts at our church).

What would you do for checks that were expensed to more than one expense account?

[Dish-Man]

jeff, we make as many copies of the check stub as accounts paid by the check. That way, if someone looks in folder 6040 (Youth Expenses), they will see every requisition with a check stub attached (or a copy if that check paid multiple accounts) This works although without printing out a transaction detail report, we aren't SURE that the amount of the requisition is what was paid with that check since the check shows the full amount (such as in a credit card bill).

I didn't realize it was so complicated to change the check printing process, but I see the problem with having a limited space on the check for an unknown number of fields to be printed in it. After reading your explanation of how it works, I can see how it would be hard to justify spending the time to write it into standard code release in PC.

Bottom line is the method we are using is working OK, but it's a little more work and requires "manual" copying. It would be nice if the info were on the check stub, but we may have to continue to rely on running a transaction detail report and attaching THAT to the requisition instead of the actual check stub, which doesn't tell us a whole lot if it's a check written for multiple invoices. We may need to come up with a standard set of procedures for any check written to cover multiple requisitions which includes running "x" copies of a transaction detail report to file with the requisition instead of the check stub.

sorry if some of my earlier posts seemed harsh, but I couldn't understand the process. I had it in my mind that the payroll check stub could contain a different amount of detail lines if you have different deductions from a person's check. I guess as long as you don't have more than "x" it's doable.

question: what happens if I were to have say 10-12 deductions on a person's check? would the program truncate the details shown on the check to a certain number or what? I realize that's probably more than would ever be done, but the principle is the same as with a check paying multiple requisitions.

[Jeff]

Actually in the current sytem both AP and PR use the same check format. They are limited to 14 lines of information so in AP it would show 14 invoices and in PR 14 items. If there are more than 14 items, only the first 14 items are shown. So far this has not been much of an issue. However this morning I did receive an e-mail to wishlist@powerchurch.com to be able to have more than 14 items in payroll on the stub. He says he needs 15 lines for Payroll his payrol checks.

In addition to needing more than 13 lines on cheque stubs for printing detail information regarding remittances, especially for payroll cheques that include 8 (eight) line items for allowances plus 1 (one) for Salary plus 5 (five) lines for withheld items against which remittances are made upon receipt of paid bills.

If we were to make this change would you want payroll checks to print the account distribution on the bottom stub as well?

[Dish-Man]

jeff, yes! most definitely! I would like to be able to print the account NUMBER withOUT the account NAME. On payroll checks, the account NAME might just confuse the payee. The account number wouldn't mean anything to them, but it would let us know that the proper accounts were being debited/credited without running additional reports. 15 lines would be plenty for us to use!

Do others of us need to submit this as a wish list item for it to get attention or it is getting enough attention since you are looking at it now? It's great to know that our wishes are at least being considered by the software writers. Guess that's one advantage to use software that's not from the "megacompanies"!

[Jeff]

There is no need to submit this to wishlist, it just comes to me anyway. I maintain a database of suggestions and have an entry for this area already and have updated it with the contents of this thread.