v.9. Using the "detailed" process described elsewhere in this forum, I want to do the following. Transfer funds from one Fund (eg. PS-03) to a Liability account in another fund (eg. Operating-01). I have:
03-9010-000 Transfer to Operating
01-9560-000 Transfer from Permanent Sustaining
01-1210-000 Cash
03-1210-000 Cash (same bank account)
01-2410-000 xyz payable Liability account
To move $700 from PS to xyz, can I get away with:
Debit 01-1210-000
Credit 03-1210-000
Debit 03-9010-000
Credit 01-2410-000
This only uses one transfer fund. Or, ...,
do I have to use six lines:
Debit 03-9010-000 Transfer to Operating Fund
Credit 03-1210-000 Cash
Debit 01-1210-000 Cash (in same bank)
Credit 01-9560-000 Transfer from PS Fund
Debit 01-1210-000 Cash
Credit 01-2410-000 xyz Payable
Thanks for the advice (in advance)
Al
Transers between Funds (again)
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Transers between Funds (again)
First United Church
Salmon Arm, BC
Salmon Arm, BC
-
Jeff
- Program Development
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:43 am
- Location: PowerChurch Software
- Contact:
You could do this with a four line transaction. It looks like you are transfering money from your 03 fund to pay a liablity in your 01 fund. If so the transaction to do so would look something like this:
Credit 03-1210-000 Cash (reduces bank)
Debit 03-9010-000 Transfer to Operating Fund
Credit 01-9560-000 Transfer from PS Fund
Debit 01-2410-000 xyz Payable (reduces liability)
You want the transfer accounts to balance each other debits and credit wise. You also want each fund to balance debits and credits as well.
In your examples you were crediting the liability which will increase it not pay it down.
Credit 03-1210-000 Cash (reduces bank)
Debit 03-9010-000 Transfer to Operating Fund
Credit 01-9560-000 Transfer from PS Fund
Debit 01-2410-000 xyz Payable (reduces liability)
You want the transfer accounts to balance each other debits and credit wise. You also want each fund to balance debits and credits as well.
In your examples you were crediting the liability which will increase it not pay it down.
Transers between Funds (again)
Jeff
It was my intention to increase (not decrease) the Liability. Essentially we are using a Liability account for a flow-thru fund (I know that isn't the way it should be but it works for us). Therefore, I want to increase the Church's liability to the group to which the Church owes money.
Al
Jeff said:
You could do this with a four line transaction. It looks like you are transfering money from your 03 fund to pay a liablity in your 01 fund. If so the transaction to do so would look something like this:
Credit 03-1210-000 Cash (reduces bank)
Debit 03-9010-000 Transfer to Operating Fund
Credit 01-9560-000 Transfer from PS Fund
Debit 01-2410-000 xyz Payable (reduces liability)
You want the transfer accounts to balance each other debits and credit wise. You also want each fund to balance debits and credits as well.
In your examples you were crediting the liability which will increase it not pay it down.
It was my intention to increase (not decrease) the Liability. Essentially we are using a Liability account for a flow-thru fund (I know that isn't the way it should be but it works for us). Therefore, I want to increase the Church's liability to the group to which the Church owes money.
Al
Jeff said:
You could do this with a four line transaction. It looks like you are transfering money from your 03 fund to pay a liablity in your 01 fund. If so the transaction to do so would look something like this:
Credit 03-1210-000 Cash (reduces bank)
Debit 03-9010-000 Transfer to Operating Fund
Credit 01-9560-000 Transfer from PS Fund
Debit 01-2410-000 xyz Payable (reduces liability)
You want the transfer accounts to balance each other debits and credit wise. You also want each fund to balance debits and credits as well.
In your examples you were crediting the liability which will increase it not pay it down.
First United Church
Salmon Arm, BC
Salmon Arm, BC
Transers between Funds (again)
In the beginning, the cash was debited to 03 (Cash - Permanent Sustaining Fund). I want to take part of that Cash from 03 and move it to 01. This would probably necessitate increasing Cash in 01 and increasing the Liability xyz Payable in 01.
Fund 03 is a fund managed by the trustees, and annually they make grants to various groups of the Interest/Dividends earned the previous year. This transaction is one of those grants, and it is within the Church.
Fund 03 is a fund managed by the trustees, and annually they make grants to various groups of the Interest/Dividends earned the previous year. This transaction is one of those grants, and it is within the Church.
First United Church
Salmon Arm, BC
Salmon Arm, BC
Comments interspersed:
Jeff said: What was the credit side?
Originally, 03-1210 was the Cash debit in the Permanent-Sustaining Fund.
03-3110 was Unrestricted Equity credit
Jeff said: Do you need to move the liability from fund 03 to 01 as well?
No - the liability xyz payable exists only in 01 01-2410-000
Jeff said: What gave rise to the liability?
I set up the liability account 01-2410 as an account where money could be deposited for the group and withdrawn from the group. It could have just as easily been an asset account. I chose to make it a Balance Sheet account so that it would carry on from year to year without closing.
Jeff said: If it was originally shown as income, what has now changed that makes it a liability?
xyz payable wasn't originally show as income, it has always been a Liability.
Jeff said: You may have another accounting event that needs to be recorded other than the transfer.
Are you saying that I should do the transfer, followed by another event? That was, more or less, my original question.[/i]
Jeff said: What was the credit side?
Originally, 03-1210 was the Cash debit in the Permanent-Sustaining Fund.
03-3110 was Unrestricted Equity credit
Jeff said: Do you need to move the liability from fund 03 to 01 as well?
No - the liability xyz payable exists only in 01 01-2410-000
Jeff said: What gave rise to the liability?
I set up the liability account 01-2410 as an account where money could be deposited for the group and withdrawn from the group. It could have just as easily been an asset account. I chose to make it a Balance Sheet account so that it would carry on from year to year without closing.
Jeff said: If it was originally shown as income, what has now changed that makes it a liability?
xyz payable wasn't originally show as income, it has always been a Liability.
Jeff said: You may have another accounting event that needs to be recorded other than the transfer.
Are you saying that I should do the transfer, followed by another event? That was, more or less, my original question.[/i]
First United Church
Salmon Arm, BC
Salmon Arm, BC
-
Jeff
- Program Development
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:43 am
- Location: PowerChurch Software
- Contact:
I guess what I am not understanding is there must have been some sort of event that created the liability. Something must have happened to make your church owe this amount to someone else. You said the original entry just credited the equity account directly, this bypassed everything and just put the money into an asset. Was this entry part of getting the balances into PowerChurch in the first place?
Just internally transfering money from one fund to another won't usually create a liability, unless one fund will have to repay the other fund at a future date. Is that the case here?
Just internally transfering money from one fund to another won't usually create a liability, unless one fund will have to repay the other fund at a future date. Is that the case here?
Maybe we should give it up....
What I'm trying to say is that the people who run the PS Fund said "Please take this money from PS Fund, put it in Operating Fund, and - by the way - give it to the xyz group when they want it."
At the end of this process, the xyz group is "owed" the money.
Al
What I'm trying to say is that the people who run the PS Fund said "Please take this money from PS Fund, put it in Operating Fund, and - by the way - give it to the xyz group when they want it."
At the end of this process, the xyz group is "owed" the money.
Al
First United Church
Salmon Arm, BC
Salmon Arm, BC
-
Jeff
- Program Development
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:43 am
- Location: PowerChurch Software
- Contact:
Why transfer the money to Fund 01 at all? Something must be happening to say that xyz is to paid the money. Should that be shown as an expense in the 03 fund? Why not pay them directly from the 03 fund? You would usually use transfers when one funds expense is being paid by another fund. You may need to talk to a local accountant. Because I am just not sure what you are trying to accomplish.
transfers (again)
Jeff said: "Just internally transferring money from one fund to another won't usually create a liability, unless one fund will have to repay the other fund at a future date." and "You would usually use transfers when one fund's expense is being paid by another fund."
Our day school (Fund 03) gives a monthly check to the church (Fund 01) as reimbusement toward utilities, insurance, and suchwhat. The church pays those bills and apportions the expenses. At year end, we expect an accounting and reconcilaition, such as, Fund 03 owes more, or Fund 01 needs to repay Fund 03.
Also, Fund 03's payroll pays Fund 01's cleaning expense, and this is considered part of that reimbursement.
I had been moving money from 03-1130 (school checking) to 03-1110 (church checking) and using this to pay the expenses (the portions for Fund 03), which are helpful to show and track for the school. Then remainder in 03-1110 showed the current balance of that reimbursement.
But should I be using a liability account? Would that be in Fund 01?
I have been using transfer accounts then to show the school giving the church the money, but then I think I need to show the church giving the school the money too. This is confusing me! I'm not comfortable moving this money through account 1110 if it does not actually go through the church checking account.
How do I show the school reimbursement balance correctly? It was suggested to me that it would be like an escrow account, which sounds like a liability account.
Help please.
Our day school (Fund 03) gives a monthly check to the church (Fund 01) as reimbusement toward utilities, insurance, and suchwhat. The church pays those bills and apportions the expenses. At year end, we expect an accounting and reconcilaition, such as, Fund 03 owes more, or Fund 01 needs to repay Fund 03.
Also, Fund 03's payroll pays Fund 01's cleaning expense, and this is considered part of that reimbursement.
I had been moving money from 03-1130 (school checking) to 03-1110 (church checking) and using this to pay the expenses (the portions for Fund 03), which are helpful to show and track for the school. Then remainder in 03-1110 showed the current balance of that reimbursement.
But should I be using a liability account? Would that be in Fund 01?
I have been using transfer accounts then to show the school giving the church the money, but then I think I need to show the church giving the school the money too. This is confusing me! I'm not comfortable moving this money through account 1110 if it does not actually go through the church checking account.
How do I show the school reimbursement balance correctly? It was suggested to me that it would be like an escrow account, which sounds like a liability account.
Help please.