I am using vs. 8 and I am in need of help. I have been using the contribution side of the program only. But this year we are incorporating the accountinmg side as well. I am having a terrible time understanding how to set this up. I have read the apprpriate sections in the book numerous times and I have been studing the sample chart of accounts but a soon as I think I get it something else comes and throws me for a loop. I there anyone who would be willing to help me via -mail or by telephone. I REALLY want to get this thing. I have always considered myself pretty quick when it comes to this stuff but this accounting set-up has really got me. Maybe I'm just making it harder than what it is. I just need much prayer : ) and a little guidance.
Just to give you an idea of what I need ......
2 Bank accounts - 1 checking that holds all funds and 1 savings which holds our building fund
The checking will contain a general fund, a benevolent fund as well as at leaste 13 other individual funds.
We would also need a CASH catagory
Our Income comes mainly from contributions and a small portion from tape/cd sales. I will only be detail tracking exspences from the general fund and the cash. I only need to track how much goes in and out of the other funds because those funds have their own treasurers for detailed tracking.
I hope someone can help me. I would certainly appriciate it!!!
Thanks!
Carla
Help Please Anyone!!!!
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If things are going good on the Contribution side, I would recommend the following on the accounting side. First, use a spreadsheet to set up your chart of accounts. If you can see the account numbers visually and how they relate across all funds it. Secondly, I would do a spreadsheet with the numbers you want on your balance sheet for each of your funds. Again, visualizing it often helps. It hard to exactly answer your question because I don't know what it is in your G/L. If nothing, your spreadsheet will be the basis of your entry to establish balances. Then you will have to make sure you have good G/L accounts in the contribution side to automatically update your G/L. I did this when I set up in version 8 and it served me well.
Randy B
Thank you for responding.
Forgive my ignorance but what is G/L?
Also just to let you know the only balance in the main checking at the moment is it's total balance. We have not added the other funds to this account yet. We plan to add one at a time over the course ofthe year.
I installed the software a 2nd time under a differnt name just to play with it and from what I have done so far I have been able to successfully see the funds from the contributions allocated in the appropraite funds but anytime I try to do enter a transaction it tells me that it can't because it is 'not in balance"
Again, thank-you
Forgive my ignorance but what is G/L?
Also just to let you know the only balance in the main checking at the moment is it's total balance. We have not added the other funds to this account yet. We plan to add one at a time over the course ofthe year.
I installed the software a 2nd time under a differnt name just to play with it and from what I have done so far I have been able to successfully see the funds from the contributions allocated in the appropraite funds but anytime I try to do enter a transaction it tells me that it can't because it is 'not in balance"
Again, thank-you
Carla
G/L is short for general ledger. Your ledger is a listing of the accounts and their balances.
One thing to become familar with is subaccounts. They allow you to have a single bank account but to split that bank account up among funds. When you establish a fund and establish the amount of cash for that fund, you will also move equity or fund balance to that fund so the balance sheet balances. That is why I recommended a spreadsheet with totals for all funds. When you total that up, your accounting totals did not change but all you did was divide among funds.
I am not sure where you are entering in transactions that prevent you because they are not in balance but if you are using fund accounting, remember debits must always equal credits. This is also true in the accounts payable module when paying bills.
One thing to become familar with is subaccounts. They allow you to have a single bank account but to split that bank account up among funds. When you establish a fund and establish the amount of cash for that fund, you will also move equity or fund balance to that fund so the balance sheet balances. That is why I recommended a spreadsheet with totals for all funds. When you total that up, your accounting totals did not change but all you did was divide among funds.
I am not sure where you are entering in transactions that prevent you because they are not in balance but if you are using fund accounting, remember debits must always equal credits. This is also true in the accounts payable module when paying bills.
Randy B
OK I think this is the source of my biggest confusion. I have never used any kind of ledger other than a standard balance ledger such as a person would have in their personal checkbook. I am not getting all these debits and credits. Do I debit the actual checking account and then credit the sub-account account? So I have to physically move the money?
Carla
Unfortunately debits and credits are the basis of accounting. Assets have debit balances. You increase them with debits and decrease them with credits. Liabilities and Equities have credit balances. You increase them with credits and decrease them with debits. The exact opposite of assets. This causes everything we do in accounting to have debits equal credits. In response to you other question, it depends on what you have done. If you establishing everything for the first time, in each fund debits the assets and credit the liabilities and equity with your beginning balances. Debits equal credits. If you use subaccounts with case like lets say 01-1110-001 is general fund cash and 02-1110-002 is building fund cash, and etc, then the total in your checkbook as you put it is the sum of all the xx-1110- accounts. Put another way, that is the total on your bank statement.
Randy B
ok let me back up
I studied and played with the debit and credit thing and I THINK I finally get it (or if I don't actually understand it is coming out right anyway). But now I am second-guessing myself on something else. I was looking at my Chart of Accounts and I used the wrong terminology earlier when I said sub accounts I was actually referring to the other accounts. So I don't need to use Sub accounts just to track monies for a building fund in the same checking account do I? I just need to assigning each fund it's own fund number (first two digits) Right?
OK If I have all this together I have a question about the 00-3000-000 (Fund Balance) accounts. Am I understanding that this is where I would enter my beginning balance - for instance my carryover from last year? When I set up each account it also asked me for beginning balances. In the 3001 account do I put my total carryover from my checking account or what?
I know I keep saying thank-you
But I truly am thankful. This is all making me feel a little digging - not a feeling I am used to. This is all very humbling
My husband said FINALLY I have met my match : )
I studied and played with the debit and credit thing and I THINK I finally get it (or if I don't actually understand it is coming out right anyway). But now I am second-guessing myself on something else. I was looking at my Chart of Accounts and I used the wrong terminology earlier when I said sub accounts I was actually referring to the other accounts. So I don't need to use Sub accounts just to track monies for a building fund in the same checking account do I? I just need to assigning each fund it's own fund number (first two digits) Right?
OK If I have all this together I have a question about the 00-3000-000 (Fund Balance) accounts. Am I understanding that this is where I would enter my beginning balance - for instance my carryover from last year? When I set up each account it also asked me for beginning balances. In the 3001 account do I put my total carryover from my checking account or what?
I know I keep saying thank-you
But I truly am thankful. This is all making me feel a little digging - not a feeling I am used to. This is all very humbling
My husband said FINALLY I have met my match : )
Carla
If all you have is one checking account, you need to use sub accounts if you want to split the money up in different funds. If you don't, you will not be able to use PowerChurch to reconcile your checking account. So lets say account 1110 is your checking account. If you want to split that up in other funds then make 01-1110-001 your general fund, 02-1110-002 your missions fund and etc. If you have a separate account for your building fund, then do not make it xx-1110- account. Give it another account number.
As for your equity question, I am not in front of PowerChurch right now. I think the 3000 account is your beginning number. The 3001 account is going to the change in equity which should flow from your income statement.
As for your equity question, I am not in front of PowerChurch right now. I think the 3000 account is your beginning number. The 3001 account is going to the change in equity which should flow from your income statement.
Randy B
oh wow I'm so glad I asked I don't know how I got that messed up. I thought that was the easy part. I'm telling you I have read this book multiple times. Obviously it is not helping me.
So if I need to track exspenses in my sub accounts I would do so like this?
01-1110-00 -Checking account
01-1110-01 -General Fund
01-5110-01 - Salaries Paid out of the general fund
and if there is more than 1 salary
01-5111-01 - Salary #1
01-5112-01 - Salary #2
So if I need to track exspenses in my sub accounts I would do so like this?
01-1110-00 -Checking account
01-1110-01 -General Fund
01-5110-01 - Salaries Paid out of the general fund
and if there is more than 1 salary
01-5111-01 - Salary #1
01-5112-01 - Salary #2
Carla
You wouldn't need an account 01-1110-000. You already have 01-1110-001. Again, when you add all the 1110 accounts, that would equal what is in your checkbook if you were keeping it manually.
As far a tracking expenses, the example you gave would have all salaries being paid out of the general fund. Changing the middle four digits would give you more accounts to view detail like pastoral salaries, administrative salaries, and etc.
I also believe you would have to enter in a value for account 3000 to have everything balance.
You might contact the PowerChurch folks via the phone and see if there are any groups near you that would offer training in PowerChurch. I think this would help you and allow the person helping you to see exactly what you are seeing on the screen. It would also help you in getting a better handle on accounting principles and practices.
As far a tracking expenses, the example you gave would have all salaries being paid out of the general fund. Changing the middle four digits would give you more accounts to view detail like pastoral salaries, administrative salaries, and etc.
I also believe you would have to enter in a value for account 3000 to have everything balance.
You might contact the PowerChurch folks via the phone and see if there are any groups near you that would offer training in PowerChurch. I think this would help you and allow the person helping you to see exactly what you are seeing on the screen. It would also help you in getting a better handle on accounting principles and practices.
Randy B
Thank-you for all your help. I did actually already contact them about getting help but there is no one in my area. I contacted the person listed for Kentucky, as that would be the closest state, but they have since moved. Sooooooooooooooo, that is what has brought me here. I don't mean to worry you. One thing I have concluded is that while I'm positive this will work very well once I get it set up I do believe it is more than what our church needs at this time. I guess I'm just getting prepared for the harvest!!!
Thanks again
BTW I've pulled out all the college accounting books - I'm determined!
Thanks again
BTW I've pulled out all the college accounting books - I'm determined!
Carla
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tborgal
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Not to muddy the water for Carla, but in response to Randy's statement about not being able to reconcile your account with PC+ if you don't use sub-accounts for each Fund. I have over 10 Funds on my system using one checking account, and do not use sub-accounts for the checking account. I only use the fund number, example 01-1110-000, 02-1110-000, 03-1110-000 and so-on, and reconciliation works just fine.
Am I missing something here???
Am I missing something here???
Tom
Thank-you Tom I thought I was cracking up over here. I know my book specifcally states that the first 2 numbers are the fund numbers and the 4 -digit number is the account number. It also further states that "For example bothe funds 01 and 02 might share your checking account number 1110.
My original thought was that with Salaries if I needed to break them down into specific people that is where my sub accounts would come in. Is this right?
Is anybody praying for me out there?
My original thought was that with Salaries if I needed to break them down into specific people that is where my sub accounts would come in. Is this right?
Is anybody praying for me out there?
Carla